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Offline Jelence

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Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« on: December 08, 2009, 06:53:29 AM »
Bolje ja da kazem nego neko drugi...



A self-help course is to blame for the psychosis which led a "shy, modest, gentle" woman to jump naked to her death from a Sydney office building, a coroner says.


Rebekah Lawrence was singing in a child-like voice and shouting "I love you" to her husband as she plunged from the building in December 2005.

The "highly regarded" worker and "sweetheart" wife had been acting increasingly psychotic in the hours leading up to her death, her inquest heard. She plunged to her death two days after attending the Turning Point course - described as a "journey to the core of the human spirit".

"She took her clothes off, she was petulant in a child-like way and she asked for help in getting dressed," NSW Deputy State Coroner Malcolm MacPherson said while delivering his findings at Glebe Coroners Court on Tuesday.
"She became physically aggressive much like a child having a tantrum. She screamed and misbehaved.

"Finally, Rebekah was naked, repeatedly ranting 'I love you David, I love you David' and was heard singing as she climbed onto the windowsill and jumped out."
An autopsy found no drugs or alcohol in her system.

Mr MacPherson blamed the regressional therapies used by untrained, unqualified practitioners running the People Knowhow course for Ms Lawrence's psychosis which led to her death.
He called for an overhaul of the regulatory systems for psychotherapy practitioners after "overwhelming" evidence of the course's responsibility for Ms Lawrence's death.


"The evidence is overwhelming that the act of stepping out of a window to her death was the tragic culmination of a developing psychosis that had its origins in a self-development course known as the Turning Point," Mr MacPherson said.
He said he was persuaded by the extensive evidence of psychiatrist Dr Michael Diamond, who heavily criticised the "Inner Child" segment of the course, which involved childhood regression of people "at their most vulnerable".

"It's the use of (these) dangerous techniques in the hands of people who don't necessarily have the skills to work with them. That is my criticism," he said.
Dr Diamond said there was no evidence to suggest Ms Lawrence had any pre-existing psychiatric illness before doing the course.

The coroner made recommendations to the NSW health minister that legal restrictions be introduced for practising under the title psychotherapist or counsellor.
He also called for compulsory legal requirements to have tertiary qualifications recognised before practitioners could receive any payment for their services.

Outside court, Ms Lawrence's sister, Kate Lawrence-Haynes, and husband David Booth said they were satisfied with the findings.
"Rebekah's death isn't in vain - it's helped a lot of people who may have come to the same grim end in the future," Mr Booth told reporters, remembering his "sweetheart" wife.

"I'm not angry, because they didn't mean to do it, but it's just unqualified people doing damaging things to people's minds.
"(People looking for psychotherapy should) go to someone with appropriate qualifications."

Ms Lawrence-Haynes warned people thinking of attending similar courses to "tread carefully".
"She was a normal woman in her 30s, grappling with marriage issues, wanting kids - there's probably hundreds of thousands of women out there grappling with exactly those issues," she said.

"She wasn't strange or crazy.
"(The finding) doesn't bring my sister back. My sister would be sharing Christmas with us ... (but) I think (the course organisers) have got their comeuppance."

The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP) said the case showed the urgent need for the regulation of the self-development and motivational courses industry.
Those running the courses should have basic skills to identify participants with undiagnosed mental health problems and to encourage these people to get "appropriate professional help".

"Unregulated courses can present a significant public safety issue," said RANZCP president Professor Louise Newman.
"While the RANZCP appreciates that the primary purpose of self-development courses is not to identify mental health concerns, the potentially high correlation between those attending courses and those suffering undiagnosed mental disorder cannot be ignored."

Prof Newman also said there was a need for more research into the "effectiveness or detrimental effects" that self-help motivational courses could have on a participant's mental health.

**************************

OK, new je news, zena sa mentalnim problemom otisla na kurs gde su je sjebali. Ja u ovom tekstu vidim i jos nekoliko stvari koje spadaju u pripremu javnosti: da ce se kursevi ubuduce drugacije regulisati (namerno nisam rekla "bolje" jer se ne zna oce li biti na bolje iil na gore) kao i klasicno sejanje straha koje je ko hidrogen za farbanje kose: jednom kad kosu naprzis hidrogenom, posle mozes da turis koju god hoces boju.
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 06:55:17 AM »
PS. For the record: A Robbins-a mogu u dupe da poljube.
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 10:19:54 AM »
Quote
the potentially high correlation between those attending courses and those suffering undiagnosed mental disorder cannot be ignored."
:evil:
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 10:40:42 AM »
 Imam jednu poznanicu na NZ koja je agronom po obrazovanju i doshavshi na NZ i imajuci i materijalnu podlogu za to pokushala je da krene neki mali biznis ( iluzija na NZ).Nakon par godina dobila je dobar posao u carinskom karantinu kao agronom.No nakon par godina rada doshla je u sukob sa shefovima ( pokushala da reorganizuje sluzbu :mrgreen:) i morala je da ode.Nakon par godina u kojima je pokushavala da nadje shta ce sa sobom doshla je ovde u Sheraton na Sunshine Coastu na jedan od tih kurseva za self-development and motivation  xuss .Polazeci od mene na taj kurs sva je drhtala od uzbudjenja govoreci mi " sad mi sve od njega zavisi" :cry:. Ja nisam mogla da se nachudim shta se desilo sa zenom jer je bila prilichno racionalna ranije  :? . Taj kurs od nekoliko dana valjda je u to vreme koshtao $ 3000 :idea: . Kad se vratila na Zeland chujem pochela biznis sa usisivachima  xtwak .Naravno tu ne samo da nije nishta zaradila vec je i izgubila dosta para ( dok je ovaca bice i vukova).Zatim krece u network Herbalife gde je prodavala neke preparate za mrshavljenje i bogami ( valjda kao reklama ) dosta i smrshala . No to opet nije donosilo neke pare i eno je sad se dosetila pa i ona radi nekakve kurseve za "self-development and motivation" ali kako nema kvalifikacije iz te oblasti njeni se baziraju na "spiritualnosti" . Htela je i mene da "lechi" prilikom zadnje posete al sam joj se zahvalila. :roll: . Vidim putuje po nekim zabitima po svetu a najvishe vremena provodi u Srbiji ( tachnije Vojvodini) i kaze da joj biznis super ide tamo. Nabacila je dvaput vishe kg. nego kad sam je upoznala ali je sad vrlo smirena. Pacijenata ne nedostaje. Pishe i za neke chasopise , sve u svemu divota.
Jedina vajda od tih kurseva je obichno za one koji brzo svate da treba da organizuju i sami ovakve kurseve :|
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline slawen

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 11:04:52 AM »
Quote from: ВБО МАН
Jedina vajda od tih kurseva je obichno za one koji brzo svate da treba da organizuju i sami ovakve kurseve

Укапирао сам ја то одавно, али мислим да би било сасвим простачки кад бих написао, на пример, "Будите на мом курсу" или тако нешто.

Семинар ми пак звучи некако половично....
Тражим прикладан назив.
We take no cash unless we cash justice for you! Are you listenin' to me? I'm givin' ya pearls hеrе!

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 12:01:12 PM »
Sve je pitanje ko sta trazi u zivotu.

Ne vidim zasto bi moj izbor bio primer bilo kome, a kamo li pravilo. Isto vazi i za tudje zivote i iskusenija. Svako nosi svoj krst.

Konkretno, tvoja prijateljica, vbo. Ti to gledas sa saljive strane, i da je pravila budalu od sebe. Ja vidim zenu koja kad padne ume da ustane. Mnogi ljudi ostanu da leze. A mnogi grabe i saplicu one koji prolaze i jos su na nogama.

A diplome i sveucilista su dobri dokle god su pomoc a ne izvor gluposti. Koliki su ljudi bili previse ponosni zbog svoje titule da im je bilo ispod casti da se spasu od gladi i nevolje.
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Offline E

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 12:25:35 PM »
Jadna zena mozda je samo htela da ima bebirona :(.
Sto se tih self help kurseva tice zaista mogu da budu opasni, a ta cinjenica da postoji korelacija izmedju ljudi koji imaju metalne probleme i ucesnika na kursevima govori mnogo i o tome kakvo je stanje u zdravstvu i drustvu uopste glede mentalnog zdravlja. Mozda bi trebalo ispitati zasto ljudi pribegavaju ovim kursevima umesto odlasku kod psihijatra. Da li je tretman i lecenje zasnovano mahom na primeni lekova i koliko ljudi inace kad su bilo koje bolesti u pitanju vole da piju tabletice. Drugo pitanje se odnosi na stigmu u drustvu koja postoji cak i u drustvima gde je standard zivota na zavidnom nivou. Ljudima je verovatno lakshe reci da ces ici na self help kurs nego kod psihijatra. Tuzno u svakom slucaju.

Offline E

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 12:27:07 PM »
Pardon mentalne, ne metalne probleme

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 12:35:55 PM »
Ma shta ja znam...nek radi ko shta hoce , ume i voli. Prichala sam vam vec za "ciganku Radu" poznatu u Brizbiju...ispred njenog shatora red svaki dan.A zena bila neki sociolog ili tako neshto. Zivot je chudo...chovek prolazi kroz svakakve faze.Neko je samo snalazljiv pa se i ovako snadje...neko veruje u stvari u koje drugi neveruju...U pravu si...sve je to individualno.Evo ja na svakom koraku nailazim na podsmeh jer verujem u Boga...tako da sam i ja mnogima smeshna.Ovi shto prave pare od ljudskih slabosti nisu nishta manje pohlepni od onih zubara o kojima prichasmo...i oni koriste shto nas boli zub :mrgreen:
Svashta ima pod kapom nebeskom... ;)
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 12:44:13 PM »
A i ti shrinkovi su...ja probala jednog...otishla na dve sesije...Stvarno ko na filmu, chovek progovorio nije  :x .A i chini mi se da mu je bilo strashno dosadno...samo shto nije zaspao. Tako sam odustala xyxy . Sad se lechim sama xrotaeye
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 01:44:52 PM »
Sto ne probas neki self-help course?  :mrgreen:
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 01:49:41 PM »
Kad smo vec kod toga...

Wells of inspiration
 
Dear Jelence,
We are two days away from the big annual Thought Leaders Conference here in Sydney.
I am excited...because 'who inspires the inspirers?' The answer is not an easy one. When you are in the business of being the one who inspires and leads, you have to actively develop 'Wells'. A 'Well' is a person, place or activity that fills you up.

So who, what and where are your Wells?

Some of mine include:
* Time with family does it for me.
* Hanging with other Thought Leaders is a primary well.
* Once a year I gather with a group of my friends in Queenstown, NZ to check in on the year and check out one of the most amazing places on the planet. (I am just back from that - awesome!)

I have many more...

I am also aware of the 'Draws'. These are the things, people and places that take away from my reserves.

Be clear about the people, places and activities that fill you up and those that do the opposite
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 02:11:42 PM »
Ma Jelence odlicno ja znam shta me "puni" a shta me "prazni" i shta bi i kako bi...samo imam neke odgovornosti i obaveze u zivotu , pa mi se neda da zivim kako bih ja volela...uvek i svakog ima neshto da ometa...tu mi nikakav kurs ne moze pomoci :cry:
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 02:30:17 PM »
Quote from: vbo man
samo imam neke odgovornosti i obaveze u zivotu ,

A ko ih nema?

The same wind blows to us all... It's not the wind that determines one's future, it's the set of the sails.

Drugim recima, nije ono sta ti se desava nego sta radis u vezi toga.

Polaznici bilo kog kursa, recimo. Neki primene sta su naucili SAD, neki malo kasnije, neki probaju pa odustanu, neki citaju knjige u sirinu o svim aspektima teme kursa, neki nadju izgovor zasto to ne radi a da nisu ni probali, neki odu na sledeci kurs...

A svi su slusali jedno isto predavanje. Svi su imali jednu istu sansu. The same wind blew to them all. A opet za godinu, za 2 godine, za 5 - nece svi stici na istu destinaciju. Jel kurs napravio razliku? Nije, nego njihov dodatak, njihova interpretacija i odluka sta ce dalje da rade sa time.

Neki skoce goli sa sprata...
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Offline slawen

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 02:41:01 PM »
 :shock:

Пази што је овај сладак.
We take no cash unless we cash justice for you! Are you listenin' to me? I'm givin' ya pearls hеrе!

Offline vbo man

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 02:42:20 PM »
Quote
neki nadju izgovor zasto to ne radi a da nisu ni probali

Ta sam!
Ima stvari koje zavise od nas ( i od toga shta po njima radimo) a ima onih koje ne zavise od nas UOPSHTE i tu nema nishta da radimo.Jedina je razlika u tome kako cemo gledati na stvari. Nema toga ko ce mene da nauchi da na crno gledam i kazem da je belo :cry:.A volela bih da se nadje takav...tu ima dosta i do prirode choveka ( od kog si materijala) i do toga shta je proshao u zivotu...i shta je nauchio iz toga shto je proshao.Al prevashodno materijal...Shta sve neki mogu da prezive i da nastave da zive relativno bezbrizne zivote ja ne mogu da se nachudim...Sa mnogo manje jedva guram...Tako reko ajd da se obratim shrinku za kakav pametan savet ( da mi kaze ono shto i sama znam :mrgreen: ) al on cuti isto ko na filmu :lol:
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train.

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 03:38:28 PM »
vbo, sve se svodi na sledece:

We’ll either find a way or an excuse.

Znaci "ima stvari koje ne zavise od mene", "sve zavisi kakav je ko covek", "nisam ja od tih", "oni su tu samo zbog para"... sta mislis, dal ovo spada u "a way" ili u "an excuse"?
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Offline slawen

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 04:15:40 PM »
Што се бре Јело више брукаш са тим књигама?
We take no cash unless we cash justice for you! Are you listenin' to me? I'm givin' ya pearls hеrе!

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 04:47:13 PM »
Tvoje misljenje je tvoj problem, sta se meni zalis?
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline slawen

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 05:00:53 PM »
Жао ми те, не изгледаш да си нека глупа жена.
We take no cash unless we cash justice for you! Are you listenin' to me? I'm givin' ya pearls hеrе!

Offline Pijanista

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 05:05:08 PM »
Quote
Vidim putuje po nekim zabitima po svetu a najvishe vremena provodi u Srbiji ( tachnije Vojvodini) i kaze da joj biznis super ide tamo.

Gde su Ivan_D i Hate da ovo vide  :D

Offline E

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2009, 05:06:34 PM »
Ma Jelence odlicno ja znam shta me "puni"
That's always good to know   xrotaeye

Offline Jelence

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Re: Coroner blames suicide on a self-help course
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2009, 05:09:25 PM »
Жао ми те, не изгледаш да си нека глупа жена.

To je takodjeR tvoja muka. Osh Palomu?
I'll tell you something about good looking people: we're not well liked

Offline slawen

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We take no cash unless we cash justice for you! Are you listenin' to me? I'm givin' ya pearls hеrе!