7kontinent

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110402/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

KABUL, Afghanistan – Anger over the burning of the Muslim holy book at a Florida church fueled a second day of deadly violence half a world away in Afghanistan, where demonstrators set cars and shops ablaze Saturday in a riot that killed nine protesters, officials said.

The church's desecration of the Quran nearly two weeks ago has outraged millions of Muslims and others worldwide, fueling anti-American sentiment that is further straining ties between the Afghan government and the West.

The uproar even brought violence to the normally peaceful northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif on Friday, when a crowd of protesters — apparently infiltrated by insurgents — stormed a U.N. compound in an outpouring that left four Afghan protesters and seven foreign U.N. employees dead.

The top U.N. envoy in Afghanistan, Staffan de Mistura, said the organization had no plans to evacuate. It would, however, temporarily redeploy 11 staff members from Maraz-i-Sharif to Kabul

"This is not an evacuation, it is a temporary redeployment because the office is not functioning. We will be ready to go back as soon as we can establish an office that is secure enough," he told reporters.

In an unrelated attack that nonetheless demonstrated the kind of violence plaguing Afghanistan nearly a decade after the U.S. invaded to oust the Taliban and hunt al-Qaida, two suicide attackers disguised as women in blue burqas blew themselves up and a third was gunned down at a NATO base on the outskirts of Kabul, police said.

The Quran was burned March 20, but many Afghans only found out about it when Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the desecration four days later. The burning took place at the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, the same church where the Rev. Terry Jones had threatened to destroy a copy of the holy book last year but initially backed down.

On Saturday, thousands of Afghans carrying long sticks and holding copies of the Quran over their heads marched through Kandahar, the largest city in southern Afghanistan and the cradle of the insurgency. The crackle of gunfire could be heard throughout the city, which was blanketed by thick black smoke.

Security forces shot in the air to disperse the crowd, said Zalmai Ayubi, a spokesman for the provincial governor. It's unclear how the protesters were slain, he said.

The governor's office in Kandahar province issued a statement saying that nine protesters were killed and 81 others were injured in the demonstration that turned into a riot. Seventeen people, including seven armed men, have been arrested, the statement said.

The governor's office claims demonstrators were incited by extremists who joined the group and set property ablaze.

"The enemies of the people and country also burned down the furniture and a bus at a ladies' high school in Kandahar and destroyed some other properties," the governor's office said.

Shops and restaurants throughout the city were shuttered and routes leading into the city were blocked by security forces.

An Associated Press photographer estimated the crowd at a few thousand and said demonstrators had smashed his camera and roughed up other journalists.

Karzai's office said the president spoke on the telephone Saturday morning with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Karzai asked the secretary-general to extend his condolences to the families of the U.N. workers slain Friday.

He also called on the U.N. to help promote religious tolerance throughout the world to ease friction between people of different faiths. Karzai said Afghan officials were investigating the U.N. attack and would bring the perpetrators to justice.

De Mistura said four Nepalese guards were killed protecting the U.N. staff and did not fire their guns.

The other three victims were identified by officials in their home countries as: Joakim Dungel, a 33-year-old Swede; Lt. Col. Siri Skare, a 53-year-old female pilot from Norway; and Filaret Motco, a 43-year-old Romanian who worked in the political section of the U.N.

The U.N. envoy said the Russian mission chief, who spoke Dari, was beaten but let go after he told the attackers he was Muslim.

According to de Mistura, a group of seven to 15 insurgents had infiltrated the protest, which numbered around 3,000 people, and said some have been arrested.

"I am profoundly sad and I am also shocked by what I saw, but we do continue our work, we are not going to be deterred," De Mistura said, describing the Quran burning as "an insane gesture."

In Florida, Wayne Sapp, a pastor at the church, called the events "tragic," but said he did not regret the actions of his church.

"I in no way feel like our church is responsible for what happened," Sapp said in a telephone interview on Friday. Afghan authorities suspect insurgents melded into the mob outside the U.N. compound and they announced the arrest of more than 20 people, including a militant they suspect was the ringleader of the assault. The suspect was an insurgent from Kapisa province, a hotbed of militancy about 250 miles (400 kilometers) southeast of the city, said Rawof Taj, deputy provincial police chief.

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid sent a text message to The Associated Press on Saturday denying that the insurgency was responsible for killing the U.N. workers.

Demonstrators have alleged that the four protesters were killed by Afghan security forces.

Interior Ministry spokesman Zemeri Bashary said Saturday that a delegation of high-ranking Afghan officials was being sent to the city to investigate what happened.

Bashary also gave reporters details of Saturday's attack on NATO's Camp Phoenix, a base on the east side of Kabul that's used to train Afghan security forces.

He said three armed insurgents wearing suicide bomb vests arrived at a main gate at the base around 6:45 a.m. Two of the attackers opened fire and then detonated their vests of explosives, Bashary said. The third opened fire and was killed by NATO forces. The body of a fourth person, an Afghan man at the scene, has not been identified. Three NATO service members were injured, the coalition said.

The gate at the base was scorched from the explosions. An AP reporter at the scene saw the remains of at least one of the attackers dangling from the gate.

Naljutio se momak na selo, pa odseko svoj q. u inat celom selu, eto to rade.

Stoka jedna za j-dams.

A waste of a perfectly good JDAM.

More like an area weapon is in order here: fuel-air or cluster...

Avganistan je nesto najcemernije na ovoj planeti. Zatucana gnojava rupetina. Hopeless.

Doduse onda procitam da je Rutgers platio $30k onoj Guido STD platformi poznatijoj ka Snooki da odrzi govor, pa mi nista nije cudno.

Indonesian Muslim protesters hold a banner during a protest against the military attack on Libya by the United States in Jakarta, Indonesia, Friday, April 1, 2011. (AP Photo/Achmad Ibrahim)

Getting Excited

Kako ja vidim, nista manji magarac nije ni pastor Vejn, i nista manje nije zasluzio JDAM u glupavu tintaru. Mada, i 7.62 bi uradio posao, da se pristedi.

Kojkurac im je palio knjigu?
Sta, kao, nije znao kako ce zatucana (i naoruzana!) gologuzija da reaguje?
I sta kaze, ne oseca se odgovornim?
To nek objasni onoj sedmorici koja su odvaljena od zivota na, siguran sam, ne bas prijatan nacin.

A Karzai je poseban hit. Da on to osudi, a i da obavesti, ako neko od mujaga, slucajno, nije cuo.

Stoka.

Sta jos, Superhik, treba da ne radimo da ne bi smo slucajno naljutili muslimanske ludake?

Ivane, da ne budem pogresno shvacen: tu zaglupljenu, zapenjenu, ostrascenu i ubilacko/samoubilacku stoku treba tuci k'o volove u kupusu, tu dileme nema.

Ali, da li stvarno mislis da je paljenje Kurana dobar i koristan potez, na bilo koji zamislivi nacin?
I da je predobri pastor ucinio pravu stvar?

Pogresno je u svemu sto radimo traziti nekakav "dobar" ili "los" potez, analizirati, davati nekakvu preterano vaznost. Ja licno o paljenju Kurana nemam nekakav lican stav. Ako je taj pastor hteo da ga zapali njegova stvar.
Ali ako nekakva smrdljiva rulja, koja svakodnevno pali zastave i slike drugih, na drugom kraju sveta, zbog toga poludi i pocne da ubija onda ne smatram da je taj pastor imalo odgovoran za to.

Pa, i bez upustanja u analizu sta je dobro a sta lose, ispada da ipak nije samo njegova (Vejnova) stvar.
Jer, da nije bilo njegovog sumanutog performansa, mozda bi ovih 7 nesretnika pozivelo jos koji dan.

Da nije bilo tebe, ili makar da si se prosle nedelje/meseca/godine/decenije malo drugacije ponasao (recimo pola sata ranije ili kasnije isao u krevet ili rucao nesto drugo nego sto si rucao), verovatno bi makar neki od te sedmorice jos bili zivi.
I sta sad, ispade da si ti kriv za njihovu smrt?

The non-anonymity condition moves the rivalry concept beyond Goertz and Diehl's (1992, 1993) inductive approach that emphasizes perfect competition.
Indeed, their approach must emphasize perfect competition, as all possible combinations of states are considered potential rival dyads. The non-negligible condition requires that states in a dyad are aware that their behavior will affect each other.
Non-anonymous, non-negligible competition is analogous to oligopolistic competition among firms in a market. Oligopolistic competition involves a small number of firms dominating a market. Such firms are aware of their competitors and the impact that their decisions have upon them. This is quite different from perfect competition, in which firms' decisions affect others in the abstract, because no single firm has enough market power to affect the livelihood of any single competitor. The great powers are clearly states with "market power" in the international system. The type of oligopolistic competition described by Keunne is characteristic of great-power rivalries. However, oligopolistic competition may also be found in regional subsystems....

Има та једна књига... у ствари и није баш књига....

Ivane, ne kapiram te, pa mi, molim te, pojasni:

1. Da li mislis da je paljenje Kurana prihvatljiv performans?

2. Da li prihvatas da je paljenje Kurana (na suncanoj Floridi) doprinelo pogibiji ove sedmorice, ipak, za nijansu vise nego moje ustajanje pola sata ranije/kasnije pre dan/mesec/godinu/deceniju?

Quote from: Superhik on April 04, 2011, 12:26:41 PM
Ivane, ne kapiram te, pa mi, molim te, pojasni:

1. Da li mislis da je paljenje Kurana prihvatljiv performans?

2. Da li prihvatas da je paljenje Kurana (na suncanoj Floridi) doprinelo pogibiji ove sedmorice, ipak, za nijansu vise nego moje ustajanje pola sata ranije/kasnije pre dan/mesec/godinu/deceniju?

paljenje kurana nikako nije prihvatljiva stvar. Taj pastor nije ni milimetar iznad razvojnog stepena pomahnitalih avganistanaca - samo je imao srecu da se rodio ovde ne tamo.
Ali kapiram Ivana, i mislim da hoce da kaze da se americke zastave, slike predsednika, verovatno i biblije svakodnevno pali i nikom nista. Da li to znaci da bi sada i mi ovde trebali da roknemo po kojeg za svaku zastavu, bibliju? Zasto se vecito povlaciti pred tom neukom, ostrascenom ruljom? Dokle? Oni ne staju. sada im je kuran bio izgovor, da nije bilo paljenja kurana vec bi nesto smislili.

Paljenje Kurana nije nesto sto bih sam uradio, cak i da znam 100% da nikad nikakve posledice ne bih snosio jer sam manje-vise vaspitan covek i ne bih nalazio za potrebno da na taj nacin vredjam celu grupu ljudi koju inace mogu dosta uspesno da izbegavam u svakodnevnom zivotu.
Ali kazem to je njegova stvar, zapalio je knjigu, pa sta? Kako moze neko ko svakodnevno pali tudje zastave zbog toga tako da poludi a da pri tom ima jos najmanju dozu normalnosti u sebi?
Za mene je paljenje Kurana taman toliko neprihvatljivo koliko i pusenje u prisustvu nepusaca, hranjenje golubova po ulici, i sl. Dakle nesto sto ne odobravam, ali nije big deal.

Da, tvrdim ti, da si ti taj dan ranije ustao ta sedmorica bi najverovatnije bili zivi i zdravi danas.

Ocigledno je da bi za svaku zapaljenu zastavu/sliku/bibliju trebalo roknuti JDAM ili, o, da, slazem se, aerosole bomb, ili Daisy Cutter, tamo gde se paljenje obavi. Odmah, ili u (logisticki) razumnom roku.

U suprotnom, a suprotno jeste, paljenje Kurana efekta nema, osim po tih 7 nesretnika. 7, za sad.

O tome ja govorim.


I, da, Ivane - ne lupaj, zivota ti.

Taj sto je palio Kuran je najvece belo djubre koje je ikada imalo cast da probrljavi koju nesuvislu recenicu na TV-u. Dno dna, trailer park trash iz Floride.

I o tome govorim.

dakle slazemo se. nazalost pomahnitale avganoistance i slicne niko nece rokati dok pale americke i ine zastave. To im je valjda 'god given right' pa tako nekako i ovima ovde paljenje kurana treba da je dozvoljeno. U suprotnom ispada da se zapadna civilizacija povlaci pred divljacima. Kapiram da druge nema ali dopustiti im nema smisla.

A sta ocekujes u zemlji u kojoj ljudi jedni druge deru zive? Mislim...

Quote from: zagor te nej on April 04, 2011, 01:25:08 PM
Taj sto je palio Kuran je najvece belo djubre koje je ikada imalo cast da probrljavi koju nesuvislu recenicu na TV-u. Dno dna, trailer park trash iz Floride.

Pa sta ako je trailer trash? Da je umocio Kuran u teglu sa urinom, bio bi umetnik?

Mnogo veca krivica je u Karzaiu, koji je iz licnog politickog interesa potpalio masu, da se bave necim i da bi opstao na vlasti. Zanima me da li bi se isto ponasao da mu nije pokazan kalendar kad se NATO povlaci iz Afganistana.

Ovi bi sekli glave i ubijali iz bilo kog razloga. Ludi preacher u Floridi je samo trenutni izgovor.

Da, ali ne mogu a da ne pomislim da bi dvoje ljudi koji su otisli u Avganistan da spasavaju sirotinju od bolestina i gladi danas imali glave na ramenima da onaj idiot nije palio Kuran. Mislim, mene licno takve stvari ne uzbudjuju, neka pali ko i sta hoce, ali ici na ruku ludacima zarad publiciteta je u najmanju ruku moronski. Njima razlog ne treba - to je tacno, ali ides im na ruku, dajes im tri gola fore ovakvim stvarima. Nista lakse dom potpaliti svetinu iz pecina nego paljenjem svetih knjiga.

OK, prosle nedelje budala palila Kuran. Pre 2-3 godine danske novine objavile karikaturu. Onomad publikovane slike iz Abu-zatvora. Kad se nista ne desava onda Izrael. I tako uvek nesto drugo problem.

Stalno im neko smeta, ne valja. A pogledaj kakva zverstva oni cine i medjusobno i drugima? I mi sada treba da se samokritikujemo i sagledavamo kao da je zapad nesto odgovoran?

Uopste me vise ne interesuju izgovori i odgovornosti trecih lica, kao sto je ovaj seljak iz Floride. Ovima je religija u pubertetu, i nece ih nista zaustaviti do redovnog bombardovanja, nazalost.

Burning Quran, Bible, Harry Potter - who cares, they're all fantasy books anyway!  :mrgreen:

Quote from: zagor te nej on April 04, 2011, 03:53:11 PM
Da, ali ne mogu a da ne pomislim da bi dvoje ljudi koji su otisli u Avganistan da spasavaju sirotinju od bolestina i gladi danas imali glave na ramenima da onaj idiot nije palio Kuran. Mislim, mene licno takve stvari ne uzbudjuju, neka pali ko i sta hoce, ali ici na ruku ludacima zarad publiciteta je u najmanju ruku moronski. Njima razlog ne treba - to je tacno, ali ides im na ruku, dajes im tri gola fore ovakvim stvarima. Nista lakse dom potpaliti svetinu iz pecina nego paljenjem svetih knjiga.

svi ti sto idu u Avganistane, Libije sada, Irake da pomazu svetu su po meni zesce opiceni. Ides u leglo zmija, sa dobrom namerom ali nema sanse da te jedna ne ujede.
Kao i nedavno onu jedrilicu sto su Somalijci uhvatili i pobili posadu sto je nosila biblije...
Steta zivota, ali to citam kao vest jednako vaznu kao i koji su rezultati u ne znam kom kolu Jelen lige u Srbiji.

Quote from: Tromotorac on April 04, 2011, 04:00:44 PM
OK, prosle nedelje budala palila Kuran. Pre 2-3 godine danske novine objavile karikaturu. Onomad publikovane slike iz Abu-zatvora. Kad se nista ne desava onda Izrael. I tako uvek nesto drugo problem.

Stalno im neko smeta, ne valja. A pogledaj kakva zverstva oni cine i medjusobno i drugima? I mi sada treba da se samokritikujemo i sagledavamo kao da je zapad nesto odgovoran?

Uopste me vise ne interesuju izgovori i odgovornosti trecih lica, kao sto je ovaj seljak iz Floride. Ovima je religija u pubertetu, i nece ih nista zaustaviti do redovnog bombardovanja, nazalost.

Da su stoka, stoka su, ali ima tu takve bede i sirotinje koja bukvalno skapava od gladi i bolesti od kojih se ne umire u civilizovanom svetu od, ne znam, industrijske revolucije na primer, da je to uzas. Dobar drugar mi je tamo radio kao humanitarac, jezivih sam se stvari naslusao. Moja je poenta da one ljude, koji iz najboljih mogucih namera ostave porodice i odu da pomazu bliblijskoj sirotinji dovodis u jos vecu opasnost kad uzmes pa zapalis usrani Kuran. I dok karikature mogu i treba da se brane kao nesto sasvim normalno u liberalnoj zapadnoj tradiciji gde je sve i sva podlezno ironiji i podjebavanju, licna promocija jendog imbecila krezubog  koji nema deset ljudi u svojoj popisanoj crkvi nije nista nego bas to sto sam napisao.

zagor je mnogo ljut  :shock:

i sta onda uraditi? Sloboda govora omogucuje i toj mesini da iskaze neslaganje sa Kuranom spaljivanjem? Zabraniti sva spaljivanja religioznih knjiga? Ili samo ako posle toga neko direktno ili indirektno ne nastrada.
Mene cak nervira da ja branim krezavog imbecila sa Floride...

Quote from: E on April 04, 2011, 04:41:55 PM
zagor je mnogo ljut  :shock:

Nisam ljut, nego je jebeno zalosno da jedna budala puca u nogu naciji koja na prokletoj mesecevoj povrsini drzi 120,000 vojnika i jedno trilion dolara.

Quote from: AFord on April 04, 2011, 04:46:21 PM
i sta onda uraditi? Sloboda govora omogucuje i toj mesini da iskaze neslaganje sa Kuranom spaljivanjem? Zabraniti sva spaljivanja religioznih knjiga? Ili samo ako posle toga neko direktno ili indirektno ne nastrada.
Mene cak nervira da ja branim krezavog imbecila sa Floride...

Ne mozes ti da zabranish nista u ovoj zemlji, ali mogu mediji da ignorisu, na primer. What's the added value of reporting this shit, pitam se ja.

To pozivanje na prvi amandman je uvek kao mac sa dve ostrice

To ja govorim stalno: NIKAD ne treba ici u zemlje treceg sveta. Rusija, Kina itd. included.

Quote from: zagor te nej on April 04, 2011, 04:49:29 PM
Ne mozes ti da zabranish nista u ovoj zemlji, ali mogu mediji da ignorisu, na primer. What's the added value of reporting this shit, pitam se ja.

Ako ocekujes da se mediji samo-koriguju nema od toga nista. Prvo to je nemoguce, drugo ima ih iz svih delova politickog spektra pa ako nece njih par sa jedne strane ovi drugi ce to iskoristiti. Ako im nekim dekretom zabranis bice mediji nisu slobodni. Ovako sa slobodama koje imaju, i bez ovih religioznih fanatika, potpuno sludjuju plebs.

Eto ti:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/04/afghan-policeman-kills-2-_n_844416.html

Quote from: zagor te nej on April 04, 2011, 04:49:29 PM

Quote from: AFord on April 04, 2011, 04:46:21 PM
i sta onda uraditi? Sloboda govora omogucuje i toj mesini da iskaze neslaganje sa Kuranom spaljivanjem? Zabraniti sva spaljivanja religioznih knjiga? Ili samo ako posle toga neko direktno ili indirektno ne nastrada.
Mene cak nervira da ja branim krezavog imbecila sa Floride...

Ne mozes ti da zabranish nista u ovoj zemlji, ali mogu mediji da ignorisu, na primer. What's the added value of reporting this shit, pitam se ja.

Mediji su ignorisali. Ovo je objavio Karzai.

Nation building is not working. We should get out of there.

As soon as we catch Bin Laden...

I jos - sta je bio added value od objavljivanja svega i svacega za vreme Rumsfielda? Abu Garib ili ona, kasnije utvrdjeno lazna, vest o popisanom Koranu u Gvantanamo?

I u ono vreme su se po muslimanskim drzavama medjusobno klali i raznosili pri svakoj od tih senzacionalnih vesti. NYT u to vreme nije nikakva savest prema UN radnicima sprecavala da objavi vesti koje bi stetile "neprijateljskoj" administraciji.

Why change now?

Sranja u Abu Graibu su protiv SAD zakona, ali ne i protiv plemenskih.
Paljenje onoga je protiv plemenskih, ali ne i protiv SAD zakona.

OK. A onaj sto je skoro klao po Afganistanu, to je protiv US zakona, dakle paralela sa Abu Garibom; zasto nema iste pompe kao ranije? Mediji stite "prijateljsku" administraciju.

S' obzirom da je ovo Karzai napravio, vreme je da se NATO spakuje, ili da njega spakuje nizvodno. Ovako, sve je gubljenje vremena, energije i para.

Uvek je i bilo.

Osim potrage za Bin Ladenom...

Quote from: Hate mail on April 04, 2011, 07:00:53 PM

Nation building is not working. We should get out of there.

As soon as we catch Bin Laden...

We've Gotta Get Out Of This Place

To tamo mora da se resi. Bolje da oni sami to rese sekirama nego tudjom vojskom i oruzjem. A strana vojska da se povuce odud.

Mislis otud?

Jebemliga, slabo mi ide gramakita.

u srbistanu šargerepa i štap možda i imaju neki efekat ...

u afghanistanu samo okupacija možda pomogne nešto i to najmanje 15 godina
(da edukuju bar jednu generaciju po normalnim školama)
i da ne šalju više decu kod njihovih amfilohija, pahomija ... ili u crnu reku ...

Quote from: Tromotorac link=topic=2123.msg43662#msg43662Mediji stite "prijateljsku" administraciju.

Ti administration-friendly (mushroom-cloud?) "mediji" su tako snazno hrupili...

Quoteu afghanistanu samo okupacija možda pomogne nešto i to najmanje 15 godina
(da edukuju bar jednu generaciju po normalnim školama)

Samo djelomice bih se složio.
Okupacija je nužna. Ili stroga izolacija.
Bez iluzija o uzgoju normalnih ili bar podobnih.
Za početak...

"In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html