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Кубанизација, Чавез стајл

Started by Daisy, February 18, 2010, 10:04:12 AM

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Daisy


Кубанци ,,господаре" Венецуелом

Опозиција, али и бивши министри у Чавесовој влади, сматрају да земља губи своју независност због кубанизације власти

Запослени у венецуеланској електродистрибуцији решили су да се групно помоле богу и затраже од њега кишу. До колективне мисе је дошло по налогу руководства хидроелектране Гури пошто је закључено да једино са неба може стићи спас за најгору електричну кризу у историји нафтоносне Венецуеле.

За енергетску кризу и учестала искључења у целој земљи председник Уго Чавес криви климатске промене, глобално отопљавање, капитализам и потрошачко друштво, али становници Венецуеле којима је обећао убрзани пут у социјализам 21. века нису овога пута спремни да здраво за готово прихвате његова објашњења. Према последњем испитивању јавног мњења, 80 одсто Венецуеланаца за несташицу струје у земљи која је по резервама нафте пета на свету, окривљује владу, а сваки трећи упире прстом лично на боливарског председника Уга Чавеса.

Први пут Чавесова популарност је пала испод 50 одсто, али аналитичари јавног мњења указују да разједињена опозиција није успела да се сабере и искористи тренутак. Чавес би, међутим, могао да зарати са својим најближим сарадницима. У прошлу среду и министар здравља Карлос Ротондаро поднео је оставку. То је трећи министар у последњих месец дана који одлази из Чавесовог кабинета. Само неколико дана пре тога оставку је поднео тадашњи потпредседник и министар војни Рамон Карисалес. И у једном и у другом случају медији у Каракасу поставили су дијагнозу коју је званична власт покушала да демантује. Министри се противе све распрострањенијем укључивању кубанских стручњака у стратешке секторе венецуеланског друштва.

Кубанци су у Венецуелу почели масовније да се настањују када је Чавес понудио угроженом и изолованом острву, нафту на поклон и по субвенционисаним ценама. За узврат, са комунистичког острва кренули су лекари и медицинско особље. Затим су стигли спортски стручњаци.

У овом тренутку Кубанци су запосели кључна места у војном сектору, обавештајној и контраобавештајној служби, царини и нафтној индустрији, тврде најупућенији аналитичари. Учитељи и наставници са Кубе подучавају децу откад вежу прву пионирску мараму па до одласка на омладинске добровољне акције.

Усред струјног шока, Чавес опет тражи помоћ од Хаване. У помоћ му је са острва послат командант Рамиро Валдес, седамдесетседмогодишњак, актуелни министар информација, који је своју дугогодишњу каријеру градио баш на пословима државне безбедности. Стигли су и стручњаци из других латиноамеричких земаља, Аргентине и Бразила. Али, како кажу у опозицији, све чешће о томе шапућу и ,,чависти", председник верује једино Кубанцима.

Није тајна да Уго Чавес жели да наследи улогу коју је имао Фидел Кастро у целом латиноамеричком региону, али владајући кругови се већ питају није ли овим приливом Кубанаца угрожен суверенитет Венецуеле. Према проценама Луис Алфонсо Давиле, бившег министра унутрашњих послова у земљи данас има 60.000 Кубанаца од којих половина ради у здравству.

,,То је као да имаш рођака који дође да живи у твојој кући. Прво га подржавамо и волимо, али дође тренутак када желиш да повратиш своју приватност", каже Давила.

Радничка конфедерација Венецуеле упозорава да су енергетски сектор запосели кубански обавештајци, а да они сада чак раде на издавању личних карата па и пасоша. Није више реткост да поједини кубански министри раде у Каракасу и издају наређења као да су у сред Хаване. То је увредљиво и за Чавесове функционере, констатовао је недавно Теодоро Петкоф, колумниста у опозиционом листу ,,Тал Квал"(,,Тако је како је").

Ми смо изгубили суверенитет, на делу је кубанска окупација, узвикује један од лидера опозиције Леополдо Лопес. Није реч, како објашњава само о везама са Кубом, већ се ради о наметању модела образовања и одбране.

Чаша жучи прелила се доласком кубанског министра да реши ,,енергетску кризу у Венецуели". Па зар Куба није позната по сталним искључењима струје, повикали су опозиционари. Ми имамо боље стручњаке од Кубе у којој је мрак постао свакодневица. Венецуеланци су се такође присетили да је ,,спаситељ из Хаване", међу оним најтврђим Кастровим људима који се двоумили да репресијом угуше свако незадовољство. Шта ли ће тек да ради у Венецуели, питају се Чавесови сународници.

Зорана Шуваковић
[објављено: 16/02/2010]


http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Svet/Kubanci-gospodare-Venecuelom.sr.html

Više volim da mi se neko izveštačeno osmehne, nego da se spontano izdere na mene.

Pijanista

Malo je to. Treba im dovesti Dragog Druga Kim Jong Ila.

amans

Moj brat od strica se odselio u Venecuelu pre godinu dana. Godinama (20) je ziveo u Italiji i imao tamo ducan sa nekim partnerom iz Venecuele. Pa su pre par godina zapoceli neki dodatni biznis (prehrambena industrija) u Venecueli, a onda je partner otisao (vratio se kuci) da razvije biznis jos vise. Prosle godine ode i moj buraz (prethodno prodavsi radnju u Italiji--tamo je, kaze, mrka kapa za posao), kao da vidi kako stvari stoje. Nije bas bio odusevljen projektom, jer, kako rece, nikad ne znas na koju ce nogu Cavez da ustane, a ako je na levu, oma nesto nacionalizuje, da se odobrovolji.  :mrgreen: Medjutim, ostade buraz tamo. Dobro im ide. Kako? Zasto? nemam pojma, cekam da cujem ..... ocigledno da bas i nije tako lose, kad ne dize glavu od posla....nije da nema izbora gde da zivi i radi... bumo vidli. Ko zna, mozda i ja zapucam tamo (umesto u Novi Sad) jednog leta, cisto da izvidim na licu mesta, da se ne lozim na reklakazala iz kojekakve stampe (mada znamo da novinari samo istinu pisu).... cim brat da zeleno svetlo  8-)
We're lost, but we're making good time.

Tromotorac

Po definiciji "snasao se" . Neka mu je sa srecom.
The bums will always loose.

alan ford

Quote from: amans on February 18, 2010, 05:06:08 PM
Moj brat od strica se odselio u Venecuelu pre godinu dana. Godinama (20) je ziveo u Italiji i imao tamo ducan sa nekim partnerom iz Venecuele. Pa su pre par godina zapoceli neki dodatni biznis (prehrambena industrija) u Venecueli, a onda je partner otisao (vratio se kuci) da razvije biznis jos vise. Prosle godine ode i moj buraz (prethodno prodavsi radnju u Italiji--tamo je, kaze, mrka kapa za posao), kao da vidi kako stvari stoje. Nije bas bio odusevljen projektom, jer, kako rece, nikad ne znas na koju ce nogu Cavez da ustane, a ako je na levu, oma nesto nacionalizuje, da se odobrovolji.  :mrgreen: Medjutim, ostade buraz tamo. Dobro im ide. Kako? Zasto? nemam pojma, cekam da cujem ..... ocigledno da bas i nije tako lose, kad ne dize glavu od posla....nije da nema izbora gde da zivi i radi... bumo vidli. Ko zna, mozda i ja zapucam tamo (umesto u Novi Sad) jednog leta, cisto da izvidim na licu mesta, da se ne lozim na reklakazala iz kojekakve stampe (mada znamo da novinari samo istinu pisu).... cim brat da zeleno svetlo  8-)

nas covek, moj dobar drug iz Hjustona, se prosle godine vratio u USA iz Venezuele. On je inace covek komunista, ali se zali da je toliko sve upropasceno da za cetiri godine koliko je ziveo da ni jednu jedinu stvar nije mogao da sredi normalno i po redosledu vec se za sve potezu veze, podmicuju sluzbenici i nesto muva. Tamo je otisao srecan jer mu je devojka venecuelanka koja uzgred nije htela da se vraca u Venecuelu, a vratili su se nazad iako su mu nudili da ostane cak i neke bolje finansijske uslove.
Inace kaze da lepsih zena na planeti ovoj nema...

Hate mail

Ja bih najvoliJo kada bi sva tzv. Latinska tzv. Amerika postala kao Kuba. Onda bi komunjare zatvorile granice i milijunske mase nepismenih seljaka bi prestale opsedati Angloameriku...

Primjer iz zivota: isti je (ergo, zivot)  ionako bio puno ljepsi dok su Kinezi dane provodili u pirincanim poljima, citajuci Maove umotvorine. Zivot je by definition mnogo bolji kada nema guzve.
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

amans

We're lost, but we're making good time.

Pijanista

ma pusti, mene odusevljava sto gomila ljudi pravda Chaveza naveliko. I sto misli da je Venecueli daleko bolje pod njim. Cak sam vidjao ljude koji smatraju da je juznokorejcima mnogo gore nego severnim

alan ford

ja sam vec jednom rekao da se nadam da u sledecem zivotu budem juznokorejac.

nego za Venecuelu je dovoljno videti da su 3. proizvodjac nafte u svetu a uvode restrikcije struje jer je nemaju dovoljno. Gde ide sva ta lova, niko se valjda ne pita...


amans

Kad budem bila u prilici da cujem/procitam (iscrpno i detaljno) sta prijatelji Caveza kazu za njega i zasto ga vole i podrzavaju, onda cu da to uporedim sa pljuvacinom kojom nas bombarduju iz svih topova njegovi neprijatelji....pa cu onda da prosudim o tome. The Economist mi nikako nije autoritet za Caveza (u stvari, oni su mi jako simpaticni i zabavni), a vala nije ni NYT, pa ni Reuter, Associated Press ni ostali.  ;)
We're lost, but we're making good time.

Tromotorac

Quote from: Hate mail on February 18, 2010, 05:31:28 PM
Ja bih najvoliJo kada bi sva tzv. Latinska tzv. Amerika postala kao Kuba. Onda bi komunjare zatvorile granice i milijunske mase nepismenih seljaka bi prestale opsedati Angloameriku...

Primjer iz zivota: isti je (ergo, zivot)  ionako bio puno ljepsi dok su Kinezi dane provodili u pirincanim poljima, citajuci Maove umotvorine. Zivot je by definition mnogo bolji kada nema guzve.


Not necessarely - pogledaj koliko je bilo gastarbajtera iz SFRJ, Poljaka, Ceha u USA za vreme Socijalizma. Svaka socijalisticka diktatura po definiciji je nesposobna za zivot, i pre ili kasnije ce zapoceti "slow bleed" radne snage u inostranstvo "pecalbu" da bi im ti potom slali devize.

Ja racunam da bi u slucaju komunisticke juzne amerike, ovde bilo jos vise pridoslica sa juga.


A tacno, u pravu si, zivot je bolji kad nema guzve, sto ja odavde mogu da potvrdim. Ono kad sam pre par godina jednu noc bio u NYC, uzas, u hotelu na 8. spratu cujem celu noc sirene policijskih i vatrogasnih kola.... no thanks...
The bums will always loose.

Tromotorac

Quote from: amans on February 18, 2010, 05:48:49 PM
Kad budem bila u prilici da cujem/procitam (iscrpno i detaljno) sta prijatelji Caveza kazu za njega i zasto ga vole i podrzavaju, onda cu da to uporedim sa pljuvacinom kojom nas bombarduju iz svih topova njegovi neprijatelji....pa cu onda da prosudim o tome. The Economist mi nikako nije autoritet za Caveza (u stvari, oni su mi jako simpaticni i zabavni), a vala nije ni NYT.  ;)

E tako Economist meni nije autoritet za US... imaju znanje, ali redakcijsko...
The bums will always loose.

zagor te nej

Venecela je jedno nesrecno, unisteno drustvo kojim vlada dusevno bolestan covek, koji ljudima polako ali sigurno oduzima svaku mogucnost da ga legalno najure sa vlasti,  tako da mu na kraju balade ne gine plitak grob negde u kaljuzi oko Marakaiba...
Prozivodnja nafte svake godine manja od prethodne jer el comandante drzavnu naftnu kompaniju PDVSA koristi da iz nje muze novac za sebe, kliku oko sebe i za seriju imbecilnih socijalnih programa. Poljoprivredu je unistio sasvim, hrana se uvozi, inflacija je najveca u zapadnoj hemisferi, 2 (DVA) zvanicna i jedan crni kurs  :o, kriminal najgori u juznoj americi. Svaki medij mora da prenosi bulaznjenja el comandantea kad god mu se digne, a digne mu se po tri cetiri sada dnevno u proseku - ko ne prenosi bude zabranjen. U poslednje vremne ne tvrdi ni da je socijalista, negom marksista, sto koincidira sa eksproprijacijom kojekakvih stranih industrija, od meksickih cementara do francuskih samoposluga.
Znam o nima nesretnima vise nego sto bih voleo, Venny je 4.5% indeksa obveznica zemalja u razvoju...
"Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future."
Niels Bohr

alan ford

Quote from: amans on February 18, 2010, 05:48:49 PM
Kad budem bila u prilici da cujem/procitam (iscrpno i detaljno) sta prijatelji Caveza kazu za njega i zasto ga vole i podrzavaju, onda cu da to uporedim sa pljuvacinom kojom nas bombarduju iz svih topova njegovi neprijatelji....pa cu onda da prosudim o tome.

i mene bi zanimalo da cujem neko strucno a objektivno misljenje tih sto ga podrzavaju mada mislim da je takvih zaista malo jer ili cu cuti strucno misljenje ljudi iz njegovog sistema (dakle ljudi koji su zahvaljujuci njemu tu gde su i sto su), ili cu cuti misljenje nekog tipa nalik Kusturici sto nije strucno. prosto sumnjam da ima tih objektivnih a da nisu deo sistema a da ga podrzavaju...

amans

da pitamo Gustava Dudamela, jes da nije politicar, al je elokventan, a Ameri ga obozavaju.
We're lost, but we're making good time.

alan ford

bojim se da ces od expat's cuti sve najgore o Cavezu. Ovde ih znam nekoliko, svi sa PhD-jevima rudarsko geoloskih i svi ga mrze iz dna duse.

zagor te nej

Ma tip je nebazdarena konjina na koju se lozi ona najbezubija svetina koja ne radi nista a zivi od socijale koja se isplacuje prodajom nafte i pozjamljivanjem para u inostranstvu. Od kako je dosao na vlast, preko sto milijardi dolara venecuelanskog kapitala je pobeglo iz zemlje glavom bez obzira.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future."
Niels Bohr

Pijanista

Odusevilo me zrno razuma koje postoji kod bratskog slobodarskog naroda Venecuele, kad nisu izglasali Cavezov predlog da se radno vreme skrati.

Hate mail

Quote from: Tromotorac on February 18, 2010, 05:48:56 PM
Not necessarely - pogledaj koliko je bilo gastarbajtera iz SFRJ, Poljaka, Ceha u USA za vreme Socijalizma. Svaka socijalisticka diktatura po definiciji je nesposobna za zivot, i pre ili kasnije ce zapoceti "slow bleed" radne snage u inostranstvo "pecalbu" da bi im ti potom slali devize.

Ja racunam da bi u slucaju komunisticke juzne amerike, ovde bilo jos vise pridoslica sa juga.


A tacno, u pravu si, zivot je bolji kad nema guzve, sto ja odavde mogu da potvrdim. Ono kad sam pre par godina jednu noc bio u NYC, uzas, u hotelu na 8. spratu cujem celu noc sirene policijskih i vatrogasnih kola.... no thanks...

Aha, kao sto je na desetke milijuna tzv. Istocnih tzv. Nijemaca opsjedalo Zapad. Elektrificirane ograde i 7.62x54mmR cuda cine na polju number controlling-a. SFRJ koja nije marila (poslije 1960.) tko odlazi a tko ostaje, naprosto nije u toj kategoriji.

Tzv. Poljaci i tzv. Cesi koji bi eventualno izbjegli (osobito cesi poslije 1968.) su bili "in trace amounts" po Zapadnoj Evropi a i ovdje u USA. Poljaci u USA su pridoslice prije i neposredno poslije ustolicenja komunizma u njihovoj zemlji.

Pretvaranje cijele tzv. Latinske tzv. Amerike u DDR bi u roku od odmah pomoglo rasciscavanju krize milenija u USA - i.e. masovne ilegalne imigracije sub-sposobnih, nepismenih, uneducable, ward-of-the state, low IQ, fast-breeding masa iz tog dela trecega svijeta. U isto bi se vrijeme zauvijek skresao broj potencijalnih glasaca ekstremno lijevih i otvoreno marksisticnih, free/handouts for all, spread (my) wealth, hyper-liberal i bleeding-heart programa i pokreta koji su nastali poslije drugoga svijetskoga rata ovdje. Granicne bi sluzbe tih komunizovanih tzv. zemalja djelatno (mitraljezima) cuvale svoje ali i nase granice (i brojna stanja), ukljucujuci i fiskalnu i overall financijsku sliku USA. Ustede u USA od toga bi bile enormne a defense industrija ovdje bi dobila i novi momentum.
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

Tromotorac

Latinoamerika nece nikad moci da bude DDR. Ali bi vrlo lako mogli da budu SFRJ.
The bums will always loose.

zagor te nej

You'd be surprised.
Chile ti je jedna od najstabilnijih razvijenih ekonomija.
Brazil je bukvalno motor globalnog ekonomskog rasta.
Nije dole sve Venny i Argy...
"Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future."
Niels Bohr

amans

yep, za koju godinu cemo tamo ici u gastarbajtere samtako
We're lost, but we're making good time.

Pijanista

...Bolivija je najsiromasnija, a najmanja stopa ubistava. luda kuca.
Plus, to je kontinent a ne federacija, ne ide poredjenje sa eseferjot.

E

Pijanista promenio avatar da se slaze uz temu ;)

Pijanista

el citao neko "7000 dana u Sibiru" od Karla Stajnera?
Austrijski komunista izmedju dva rata dodje u Jugoslaviju a posle u CCCP, da se obrazuje na izvoristu progresivnih ideja. I zaglavi 20 godina u gulagu. E, kako bih voleo da ljubitelji Caveza, Kastra, Kima itd odu malo da se o svemu obaveste na licu mesta.

Hate mail

Ja znam da su Chile i Brazil top notch. Ali cak ni to nam ne ide u prilog.

Zasto se i oni ne bi samoubili komunizmom pa da mi u USA budemo "motor ekonomskog rasta" umesto njih i umesto svih ostalih?

Slicno zelim i tzv. Kini. Najbolje bi bilo da neki Pol Pot tamo dodje na vlast, povesa ove "revizioniste", pomlati obrazovane a sve ostale povede na dugi marsh kroz pirincana polja u Mao-style sakoima uz pevanje koracnica i periodicne masovne cistke i slicne zanimacije.

Indija, sa politickim sistemom koji tamo postoji vec 60 godina, birokratijom kao i sa unutrasnjim nestabilnostima svih vrsta (od manjka obradive zemlje, vode, do 3-4 rata sa nuklearnim susedom), nema ozbiljne sanse da bude takmac bilo kome. Treba im samo pootimati top 50% undergrads i 100% graduates sa svih boljih univerziteta i zaposliti ovde. Otprilike otvoriti INS offices pri svim top-notch indijskim sciences/technology/engineering skolama (tipa IIT, imam prijatelja sa IIT-a) i zaheftati H1-B vizu ili Green card na diplomu odmah po diplomiranju.

Tzv. Rusiju ogradimo raketama do daljnjeg, i.e. dok ne vidimo sta cemo sa njima i sa nasim nafta/gas prirodnim bogatstvima na kojima sede i onda mi - USA, Zapadna Evropa, novouspostavljena/atlantizirana centralna/istocna Evropa + Balkan, zatim UK + commonwealth (mrzi me da nabrajam sve te drzavice/kontinente), Japan, Juzna Koreja i par gradova-drzava u Aziji like in the good old days zgrabimo mineralne i sve moguce resurse ostatka tzv. Afrike, tzv. Bliskog tzv. Istoka, tzv. Azije, tzv. Latinske tzv. Amerike (morace da ne bi lipsali od gradi, kao tzv. SSSR sto je morao da uvozi americku psenicu i istu placa naftom) i nastavimo da zivimo high life dok mase de facto konkurencije za hranu/vodu/energiju/standard/labor/wage differentials skapavaju u logorima "of their own making"?

*Ovo je moj wish list.  :mrgreen:
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

Tromotorac

Quote from: Hate mail on February 18, 2010, 07:39:37 PM
Ja znam da su Chile i Brazil top notch. Ali cak ni to nam ne ide u prilog.

Zasto se i oni ne bi samoubili komunizmom pa da mi u USA budemo "motor ekonomskog rasta" umesto njih i umesto svih ostalih?

Slicno zelim i tzv. Kini. Najbolje bi bilo da neki Pol Pot tamo dodje na vlast, povesa ove "revizioniste", pomlati obrazovane a sve ostale povede na dugi marsh kroz pirincana polja u Mao-style sakoima uz pevanje koracnica i periodicne masovne cistke i slicne zanimacije.

Indija, sa politickim sistemom koji tamo postoji vec 60 godina, birokratijom kao i sa unutrasnjim nestabilnostima svih vrsta (od manjka obradive zemlje, vode, do 3-4 rata sa nuklearnim susedom), nema ozbiljne sanse da bude takmac bilo kome. Treba im samo pootimati top 50% undergrads i 100% graduates sa svih boljih univerziteta i zaposliti ovde. Otprilike otvoriti INS offices pri svim top-notch indijskim sciences/technology/engineering skolama (tipa IIT, imam prijatelja sa IIT-a) i zaheftati H1-B vizu ili Green card na diplomu odmah po diplomiranju.

Tzv. Rusiju ogradimo raketama do daljnjeg, i.e. dok ne vidimo sta cemo sa njima i sa nasim nafta/gas prirodnim bogatstvima na kojima sede i onda mi - USA, Zapadna Evropa, novouspostavljena/atlantizirana centralna/istocna Evropa + Balkan, zatim UK + commonwealth (mrzi me da nabrajam sve te drzavice/kontinente), Japan, Juzna Koreja i par gradova-drzava u Aziji like in the good old days zgrabimo mineralne i sve moguce resurse ostatka tzv. Afrike, tzv. Bliskog tzv. Istoka, tzv. Azije, tzv. Latinske tzv. Amerike (morace da ne bi lipsali od gradi, kao tzv. SSSR sto je morao da uvozi americku psenicu i istu placa naftom) i nastavimo da zivimo high life dok mase de facto konkurencije za hranu/vodu/energiju/standard/labor/wage differentials skapavaju u logorima "of their own making"?

*Ovo je moj wish list.  :mrgreen:


Raste Dzingoista, pljunuti Tromotorac  8-)
The bums will always loose.

Hate mail

Pa missim, sitno, ravnicarski brate. Ne valja kad je guzva, jel' tako? Langsam aber sicher, sto se kaze kod nas.

That would be the day, sadly.

Jasno, "nase" The Powers That Be verovatno planiraju izdaju, tj. kako da nas sve zajedno ovde svedu na nivo tog mucenog sveta a da umesto prava i pogodnosti za sve, sacuvaju to samo za sebe (svoj stratum) a vecinu ovog ostalog razdele sa novoupostavljenim "silama" u novom globalnom dealu. To bi znacilo da se ti i ja preko noci ili za 20 godina nadjemo u istom platnom razredu kao neki skupljac crknutih kokosaka (TM, Miladin :mrgreen: ) po Peshawaru.

E, speaking of which, evo (jos) jedan daily Miladin quote.

Negde devedesetih on ode na buvljak. Kad se vratio, mi ga pitamo:

- "Matori, cujem da si bio na buvljak?".

- "Da".

- "I, kako je bilo?"

- "K'o na pijaci u Peshawaru..."

:mrgreen: :|
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

Tromotorac

Bice nekakva UN okupacija, crni helikopteri, Cavezov sin/sinovac u prijateljskoj poseti NYC, donacije mazuta stoci iznad 118te ulice, lov na replikante, kisa & pijaca peshwaru... cela zapadna hemifera zemlja proleterska.
The bums will always loose.

Hate mail

UN okupacija? Ma ne bre. To je za tzv. Srbije ovog sveta.

Ima ovde sasvim dovoljno in-house pacifikatorskih koncepata.
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

Tromotorac

Pa to ce i biti self-inflicted "okupacija": lokalno ljudstvo ali sa Interpol eshalonima, Green Police, Haskim sudijama, itd. Liberalima je od FDRa can za internacionalnom UN upravom.
The bums will always loose.

Hate mail

Liberalima?

Ne, ne. To je 1992. izjavio Kissinger. Look it up, izjava posle Rodney King nemira. Wow, didn't see that one coming, eh? They're all in on it.

Jedan od koncepata skretanja paznje je i taj potpuno isfabrikovani left-right tzv. diskurs.

Pazi ovako (kako ja to vidim):

PV = nRT.

A smanjis jedno, moras da povecas drugo. U prevodu: a smanjis standard/civilne slobode/kolicinu hrane, energije, gadgeta i slicno iz potrosacke korpe za istu jednicu novca, ili ti prosto isceznu perspektive buducih narastaja - odmah moras da povecas dal' rat(ove), dal' naruceni ili dozvoljeni "terorizam" i posledicna generacijska busanja u grudi i lupetanja, dal' "crni predsednik, fuuuuuuck!" sentiment, dal' hleb & igre tipa beskrajni left-right masturbacijski "diskurs", dal' "AmeriKa good,  me purrty" sapunicu, you fuckin' name it.

Da ustanu Founding Fathers, dali bi postreljati preko noci sve ove izdajnike (left and right; pun intended) i razgraditi podivljalu federalnu (citaj: imperijalnu) drzavu koja je protivno njihovomu planu sazdana u poslednjih 100-njak godina, koliko dugo otprilike ovde ustav ne vredi po picke ladne vode ("Every time I try to do something, you push the Constitution in my face. It's nothing but a goddamn piece of paper!").
"You! Yes, you! Stand still, laddie!"

Daisy

минтајм ин јуранијум рич Нигер

још један јадник који је зарад жртвовања за добробит нације морао да распушта парламент / да мења Устав да би после 2 х 5 година, могао да настави да се бави својим добробитним радом у функцији председника државе ...

Quote

Under his tenure, work has begun on the world's second-biggest uranium mine, and energy deals have been signed with Chinese firms


Ко игра за рају, и занемарује тактику, завршиће каријеру у нижеразредном Вратнику




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Nigerien_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt




2010 Niger coup d'état

The 2010 Niger coup d'état occurred in Niger on 18 February 2010. Shooting occurred at the presidential palace in Niamey at mid-day, and the palace was damaged; various casualties were reported by witnesses. The attack occurred while President Mamadou Tandja was chairing a meeting of the government at the palace, and he was captured by the rebel soldiers. Later in the day, the formation of a ruling junta, the Supreme Council for the Restoration of Democracy (CSRD), was announced on television.

Background

The coup followed a year-long political crisis in Niger related to President Tandja's efforts to extend his mandate beyond December 2009, when his second term was originally scheduled to end. Arguing that the people wanted him to remain in office, Tandja dissolved the National Assembly in May 2009 and subsequently appointed a new Constitutional Court, enabling him to push forward with a constitutional referendum in August 2009 that extended his mandate for an additional three years. The new constitution also enhanced Tandja's power by scrapping the semi-presidential system of government in favor of a presidential system.

The opposition reacted furiously to Tandja's efforts to remain in office and denounced him as a dictator. Tandja also faced strong international and regional criticism as a result of the events of 2009; Niger was suspended from the regional body ECOWAS, and some aid from western countries was halted. While Tandja said that he needed to remain in office to oversee various projects of tremendous economic value, others felt that Niger, as one of the poorest nations in the world, was in a poor position to cope with any degree of isolation. The former minister Mariama Gamatié pointed to a serious and ongoing hunger problem and argued that "we cannot afford [Tandja's] ego."

Tandja is one of Niger's most enduring politicians, first entering politics through his participation in the 1974 coup d'état that brought Seyni Kountché to power. He held various high-level posts under the Kountché regime and then headed the National Movement for the Development of Society (MNSD) as an opposition leader during the 1990s. A 1999 coup d'état paved the way for a free and fair election in which Tandja was elected President.

Initial violence

A group of soldiers from a barracks at Tondibia, near Niamey, reportedly entered the city with armored vehicles at mid-day on 18 February 2010 and opened fire on the presidential palace, damaging the building. They did so while a meeting of the government, chaired by Tandja, was beginning. Gunfire and explosions near the presidential palace were heard "non-stop" for about 30 minutes, followed by "sporadic shooting". A "senior French official" told the news agency Agence France-Presse that a coup attempt was underway and that "it would appear that Tandja is not in a good position". As a result of the attack, Tandja was apparently captured by the rebel soldiers.

At least three soldiers were reportedly killed. French nationals in Niamey were asked to stay indoors for safety by the French government.

After the violence began, streets in the city center were quickly deserted as civilians sought shelter from the events. The national radio station Voix du Sahel continued to broadcast, although it was interrupted for 15 minutes. Subsequently it failed to mention the violence during a normal news report for the afternoon and played traditional music.

Subsequent events

A few hours after the initial violence, reports emerged indicating that the coup attempt, led by Major Adamou Harouna, had succeeded. Tandja and government ministers were said to be held in detention at a point near the palace. Military music was broadcast on the national radio.

Later in the day, the formation of a ruling junta, the Supreme Council for the Restoration of Democracy (CSRD), was announced on television. Speaking for the CSRD, Colonel Goukoye Abdul Karimou, who was surrounded by other soldiers, announced that the constitution was suspended and state institutions, such as the National Assembly, were dissolved. He called for calm and unity among the people and urged "national and international opinions to support us in our patriotic action to save Niger and its population from poverty, deception and corruption". According to Karimou, the military had acted because it felt the need to resolve Niger's "tense political situation". The announcement did not mention Tandja, and it also failed to clarify how long the CSRD planned to remain in power. It did, however, say that the national borders were closed and an overnight curfew was being imposed.




кандидат за пијани аватар



President Mamadou Tandja in 2007





од 2000 па наовамо на топ листи државних удара са три комата води:

Philippines (2003), (2006), (2007)

по комата два:

Fiji (2000), (2006)
Chad (2004), (2006)
Mauritania (2005), (2008)
Madagascar (2006), (2009)

Više volim da mi se neko izveštačeno osmehne, nego da se spontano izdere na mene.

amans

Nema veze sa temom, cisto radi zabave:


Timeline of United States military operations
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


haha kod postiranja dobih ovu poruku:
The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:
The message exceeds the maximum allowed length (20000 characters).


pa cu morati da delim na parcice...no comment :mrgreen:
1945-1949

1945-49 Occupation of part of Germany.

1945-55 Occupation of part of Austria.

1945-46 Occupation of part of Italy.[citation needed]

1945-52 Occupation of Japan.

1944-46 Temporary reoccupation of the Philippines during WWII and in preparation for previously scheduled independence.[citation needed]

1945-49 Occupation of South Korea and defeat of a leftist insurgency.[citation needed]

1946 – Trieste (Italy). President Truman ordered the increase of US troops along the zonal occupation line and the reinforcement of air forces in northern Italy after Yugoslav forces shot down an unarmed US Army transport plane flying over Venezia Giulia..[citation needed] Earlier US naval units had been sent to the scene.[RL30172] Later the Free Territory of Trieste, Zone A.

1945-47 US Marines garrisoned in mainland China to oversee the removal of Soviet and Japanese forces after World War II.[3]

1948 – Palestine. A marine consular guard was sent to Jerusalem to protect the US Consul General.[RL30172]

1948 – Berlin. Berlin Airlift After the Soviet Union established a land blockade of the US, British, and French sectors of Berlin on June 24, 1948, the United States and its allies airlifted supplies to Berlin until after the blockade was lifted in May 1949.[RL30172]

1948-49 – China. Marines were dispatched to Nanking to protect the American Embassy when the city fell to Communist troops, and to Shanghai to aid in the protection and evacuation of Americans.[RL30172]
[edit] 1950-1959

1950-53 – Korean War. The United States responded to North Korean invasion of South Korea by going to its assistance, pursuant to United Nations Security Council resolutions. US forces deployed in Korea exceeded 300,000 during the last year of the conflict. Over 36,600 US military were killed in action.[RL30172]

1950-55 – Formosa (Taiwan). In June 1950 at the beginning of the Korean War, President Truman ordered the US Seventh Fleet to prevent Chinese Communist attacks upon Formosa and Chinese Nationalist operations against mainland China.[RL30172]

1954-55 – China. Naval units evacuated US civilians and military personnel from the Tachen Islands.[RL30172]

1955-64 – Vietnam. First military advisors sent to Vietnam on 12 Feb 1955. By 1964, US troop levels had grown to 21,000. On 7 August 1964, US Congress approved Gulf of Tonkin resolution affirming "All necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States. . .to prevent further aggression. . . (and) assist any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asian Collective Defense Treaty (SEATO) requesting assistance. . ."[Vietnam timeline]

1956 – Egypt. A marine battalion evacuated US nationals and other persons from Alexandria during the Suez crisis.[RL30172]

1958 – Lebanon. Lebanon crisis of 1958 Marines were landed in Lebanon at the invitation of President Camille Chamoun to help protect against threatened insurrection supported from the outside. The President's action was supported by a Congressional resolution passed in 1957 that authorized such actions in that area of the world.[RL30172]
[edit] 1960-1969

1959-60 – The Caribbean. Second Marine Ground Task Force was deployed to protect US nationals following the Cuban revolution.[RL30172]

1962 – Thailand. The Third Marine Expeditionary Unit landed on May 17, 1962 to support that country during the threat of Communist pressure from outside; by July 30, the 5,000 marines had been withdrawn.[RL30172]

1962 – Cuba. Cuban Missile Crisis On October 22, President Kennedy instituted a "quarantine" on the shipment of offensive missiles to Cuba from the Soviet Union. He also warned Soviet Union that the launching of any missile from Cuba against nations in the Western Hemisphere would bring about US nuclear retaliation on the Soviet Union. A negotiated settlement was achieved in a few days.[RL30172]

1962-75 – Laos. From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos.[RL30172]

1964 – Congo (Zaire). The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners.[RL30172]

1959-75 – Vietnam War. US military advisers had been in South Vietnam for a decade, and their numbers had been increased as the military position of the Saigon government became weaker. After citing what he termed were attacks on US destroyers in the Tonkin Gulf, President Johnson asked in August 1964 for a resolution expressing US determination to support freedom and protect peace in Southeast Asia. Congress responded with the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, expressing support for "all necessary measures" the President might take to repel armed attacks against US forces and prevent further aggression. Following this resolution, and following a Communist attack on a US installation in central Vietnam, the United States escalated its participation in the war to a peak of 543,000 military personnel by April 1969.[RL30172]

1965 – Dominican Republic. Invasion of Dominican Republic The United States intervened to protect lives and property during a Dominican revolt and sent 20,000 US troops as fears grew that the revolutionary forces were coming increasingly under Communist control.[RL30172]

1967 – Israel. The USS Liberty incident, whereupon a United States Navy Technical Research Ship was attacked June 8, 1967 by Israeli armed forces, killing 34 and wounding more than 170 U.S. crew members.

1967 – Congo (Zaire). The United States sent three military transport aircraft with crews to provide the Congo central government with logistical support during a revolt.[RL30172]

1968 – Laos & Cambodia. U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years. (See Operation Commando Hunt)
[edit] 1970-1979

1970 – Cambodia Campaign. US troops were ordered into Cambodia to clean out Communist sanctuaries from which Viet Cong and North Vietnamese attacked US and South Vietnamese forces in Vietnam. The object of this attack, which lasted from April 30 to June 30, was to ensure the continuing safe withdrawal of American forces from South Vietnam and to assist the program of Vietnamization.[RL30172]

1973 – Operation Nickel Grass, a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the Yom Kippur War.

1974 – Evacuation from Cyprus. United States naval forces evacuated US civilians during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.[RL30172]

1975 – Evacuation from Vietnam. On April 3, 1975, President Ford reported US naval vessels, helicopters, and Marines had been sent to assist in evacuation of refugees and US nationals from Vietnam.[RL30172]

1975 – Evacuation from Cambodia. On April 12, 1975, President Ford reported that he had ordered US military forces to proceed with the planned evacuation of US citizens from Cambodia.[RL30172]

1975 – South Vietnam. On April 30, 1975, President Ford reported that a force of 70 evacuation helicopters and 865 Marines had evacuated about 1,400 US citizens and 5,500 third country nationals and South Vietnamese from landing zones in and around the US Embassy, Saigon and Tan Son Nhut Airport.[RL30172]

1975 – Cambodia. Mayagüez Incident. On May 15, 1975, President Ford reported he had ordered military forces to retake the SS Mayagüez, a merchant vessel which was seized from Cambodian naval patrol boats in international waters and forced to proceed to a nearby island.[RL30172]

1976 – Lebanon. On July 22 and 23, 1976, helicopters from five US naval vessels evacuated approximately 250 Americans and Europeans from Lebanon during fighting between Lebanese factions after an overland convoy evacuation had been blocked by hostilities.[RL30172]

1976 – Korea. Additional forces were sent to Korea after two American soldiers were killed by North Korean soldiers in the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea while cutting down a tree.[RL30172]

1978 – Zaire (Congo). From May 19 through June 1978, the United States utilized military transport aircraft to provide logistical support to Belgian and French rescue operations in Zaire.[RL30172]
[edit] 1980-1990

1980 – Operation Eagle Claw, Iran. On April 26, 1980, President Carter reported the use of six U.S. transport planes and eight helicopters in an unsuccessful attempt to rescue the American hostages in Iran.

1981 – El Salvador. After a guerrilla offensive against the government of El Salvador, additional US military advisers were sent to El Salvador, bringing the total to approximately 55, to assist in training government forces in counterinsurgency.[RL30172]

1981 – Libya. First Gulf of Sidra Incident On August 19, 1981, US planes based on the carrier USS Nimitz shot down two Libyan jets over the Gulf of Sidra after one of the Libyan jets had fired a heat-seeking missile. The United States periodically held freedom of navigation exercises in the Gulf of Sidra, claimed by Libya as territorial waters but considered international waters by the United States.[RL30172]

1982 – Sinai. On March 19, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of military personnel and equipment to participate in the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai. Participation had been authorized by the Multinational Force and Observers Resolution, Public Law 97-132.[RL30172]

1982 – Lebanon. Multinational Force in Lebanon. On August 21, 1982, President Reagan reported the dispatch of 80 Marines to serve in the multinational force to assist in the withdrawal of members of the Palestine Liberation force from Beirut. The Marines left September 20, 1982.[RL30172]

1982-1983 – Lebanon. On September 29, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of 1200 marines to serve in a temporary multinational force to facilitate the restoration of Lebanese government sovereignty. On September 29, 1983, Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution (P.L. 98-119) authorizing the continued participation for eighteen months.[RL30172]

1983 – Egypt. After a Libyan plane bombed a city in Sudan on March 18, 1983, and Sudan and Egypt appealed for assistance, the United States dispatched an AWACS electronic surveillance plane to Egypt.[RL30172]

1983 – Grenada. Citing the increased threat of Soviet and Cuban influence and noting the development of an international airport following a bloodless Grenada coup d'état and alignment with the Soviets and Cuba, the U.S. launches Operation Urgent Fury to invade the sovereign island nation of Grenada.[RL30172]

1983-89 – Honduras. In July 1983 the United States undertook a series of exercises in Honduras that some believed might lead to conflict with Nicaragua. On March 25, 1986, unarmed US military helicopters and crewmen ferried Honduran troops to the Nicaraguan border to repel Nicaraguan troops.[RL30172]



We're lost, but we're making good time.

amans

part deux:

1983 – Chad. On August 8, 1983, President Reagan reported the deployment of two AWACS electronic surveillance planes and eight F-15 fighter planes and ground logistical support forces to assist Chad against Libyan and rebel forces.[RL30172]

1984 – Persian Gulf. On June 5, 1984, Saudi Arabian jet fighter planes, aided by intelligence from a US AWACS electronic surveillance aircraft and fueled by a U.S. KC-10 tanker, shot down two Iranian fighter planes over an area of the Persian Gulf proclaimed as a protected zone for shipping.[RL30172]

1985 – Italy. On October 10, 1985, US Navy pilots intercepted an Egyptian airliner and forced it to land in Sicily. The airliner was carrying the hijackers of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro who had killed an American citizen during the hijacking.[RL30172]

1986 – Libya. Action in the Gulf of Sidra (1986) On March 26, 1986, President Reagan reported on March 24 and 25, US forces, while engaged in freedom of navigation exercises around the Gulf of Sidra, had been attacked by Libyan missiles and the United States had responded with missiles.[RL30172]

1986 – Libya. Operation El Dorado Canyon On April 16, 1986, President Reagan reported that U.S. air and naval forces had conducted bombing strikes on terrorist facilities and military installations in the Libyan capitol of Tripoli, claiming that Libyan leader Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi was responsible for a bomb attack at a German disco that killed two U.S. soldiers.[RL30172]

1986 – Bolivia. U.S. Army personnel and aircraft assisted Bolivia in anti-drug operations.[RL30172]

1987 – Persian Gulf. USS Stark was struck on May 17 by two Exocet antiship missiles fired from an Iraqi F-1 Mirage during the Iran-Iraq War killing 37 US Navy sailors.

1987 –October 19, Operation Nimble Archer - attack on two Iranian oil platforms in the Persian Gulf by United States Navy forces. The attack was a response to Iran's October 16, 1987 attack on the MV Sea Isle City, a reflagged Kuwaiti oil tanker at anchor off Kuwait, with a Silkworm missile.

1987-88 – Persian Gulf. After the Iran-Iraq War resulted in several military incidents in the Persian Gulf, the United States increased US joint military forces operations in the Persian Gulf and adopted a policy of reflagging and escorting Kuwaiti oil tankers through the Persian Gulf, called Operation Earnest Will. President Reagan reported that US ships had been fired upon or struck mines or taken other military action on September 21 (Iran Ajr), October 8, and October 19, 1987 and April 18 (Operation Praying Mantis), July 3, and July 14, 1988. The United States gradually reduced its forces after a cease-fire between Iran and Iraq on August 20, 1988.[RL30172] It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.[4]

1987-88 – Operation Earnest Will was the U.S. military protection of Kuwaiti oil tankers from Iraqi and Iranian attacks in 1987 and 1988 during the Tanker War phase of the Iran-Iraq War. It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.

1987-88 – Operation Prime Chance was a United States Special Operations Command operation intended to protect U.S. -flagged oil tankers from Iranian attack during the Iran-Iraq War. The operation took place roughly at the same time as Operation Earnest Will.

1988 – Operation Praying Mantis was the April 18, 1988 action waged by U.S. naval forces in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf and the subsequent damage to an American warship.

1988 – Operation Golden Pheasant was an emergency deployment of U.S. troops to Honduras in 1988, as a result of threatening actions by the forces of the (then socialist) Nicaraguans.

1988 – USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655

1988 – Panama. In mid-March and April 1988, during a period of instability in Panama and as the United States increased pressure on Panamanian head of state General Manuel Noriega to resign, the United States sent 1,000 troops to Panama, to "further safeguard the canal, US lives, property and interests in the area." The forces supplemented 10,000 US military personnel already in the Panama Canal Zone.[RL30172]

1989 – Libya. Second Gulf of Sidra Incident On January 4, 1989, two US Navy F-14 aircraft based on the USS John F. Kennedy shot down two Libyan jet fighters over the Mediterranean Sea about 70 miles north of Libya. The US pilots said the Libyan planes had demonstrated hostile intentions.[RL30172]

1989 – Panama. On May 11, 1989, in response to General Noriega's disregard of the results of the Panamanian election, President Bush ordered a brigade-sized force of approximately 1,900 troops to augment the estimated 11,000 U.S. forces already in the area.[RL30172]

1989 – Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru. Andean Initiative in War on Drugs. On September 15, 1989, President Bush announced that military and law enforcement assistance would be sent to help the Andean nations of Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru combat illicit drug producers and traffickers. By mid-September there were 50-100 US military advisers in Colombia in connection with transport and training in the use of military equipment, plus seven Special Forces teams of 2-12 persons to train troops in the three countries.[RL30172]

1989 – Operation Classic Resolve, Philippines - On December 2, 1989, President Bush reported that on December 1, Air Force fighters from Clark Air Base in Luzon had assisted the Aquino government to repel a coup attempt. In addition, 100 marines were sent from U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay to protect the United States Embassy in Manila.[RL30172]

1989-90 – Operation Just Cause, Panama - On December 21, 1989, President Bush reported that he had ordered US military forces to Panama to protect the lives of American citizens and bring General Noriega to justice. By February 13, 1990, all the invasion forces had been withdrawn.[RL30172] Around 200 Panamanian civilians were reported killed. The Panamanian head of state, General Manuel Noriega, was captured and brought to the U.S.

1990 – Liberia. On August 6, 1990, President Bush reported that a reinforced rifle company had been sent to provide additional security to the US Embassy in Monrovia, and that helicopter teams had evacuated U.S. citizens from Liberia.[RL30172]

1990 – Saudi Arabia. On August 9, 1990, President Bush reported that he had ordered the forward deployment of substantial elements of the US armed forces into the Persian Gulf region to help defend Saudi Arabia after the August 2 invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. On November 16, 1990, he reported the continued buildup of the forces to ensure an adequate offensive military option.[RL30172] American hostages being held in Iran.[RL30172]

1981 – El Salvador. After a guerrilla offensive against the government of El Salvador, additional US military advisers were sent to El Salvador, bringing the total to approximately 55, to assist in training government forces in counterinsurgency.[RL30172]

1981 – Libya. First Gulf of Sidra Incident On August 19, 1981, US planes based on the carrier USS Nimitz shot down two Libyan jets over the Gulf of Sidra after one of the Libyan jets had fired a heat-seeking missile. The United States periodically held freedom of navigation exercises in the Gulf of Sidra, claimed by Libya as territorial waters but considered international waters by the United States.[RL30172]

1982 – Sinai. On March 19, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of military personnel and equipment to participate in the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai. Participation had been authorized by the Multinational Force and Observers Resolution, Public Law 97-132.[RL30172]

1982 – Lebanon. Multinational Force in Lebanon. On August 21, 1982, President Reagan reported the dispatch of 80 Marines to serve in the multinational force to assist in the withdrawal of members of the Palestine Liberation force from Beirut. The Marines left September 20, 1982.[RL30172]

1982-1983 – Lebanon. On September 29, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of 1200 marines to serve in a temporary multinational force to facilitate the restoration of Lebanese government sovereignty. On September 29, 1983, Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution (P.L. 98-119) authorizing the continued participation for eighteen months.[RL30172]

1983 – Egypt. After a Libyan plane bombed a city in Sudan on March 18, 1983, and Sudan and Egypt appealed for assistance, the United States dispatched an AWACS electronic surveillance plane to Egypt.[RL30172]

1983 – Grenada. Citing the increased threat of Soviet and Cuban influence and noting the development of an international airport following a bloodless Grenada coup d'état and alignment with the Soviets and Cuba, the U.S. launches Operation Urgent Fury to invade the sovereign island nation of Grenada.[RL30172]

1983-89 – Honduras. In July 1983 the United States undertook a series of exercises in Honduras that some believed might lead to conflict with Nicaragua. On March 25, 1986, unarmed US military helicopters and crewmen ferried Honduran troops to the Nicaraguan border to repel Nicaraguan troops.[RL30172]

1983 – Chad. On August 8, 1983, President Reagan reported the deployment of two AWACS electronic surveillance planes and eight F-15 fighter planes and ground logistical support forces to assist Chad against Libyan and rebel forces.[RL30172]

1984 – Persian Gulf. On June 5, 1984, Saudi Arabian jet fighter planes, aided by intelligence from a US AWACS electronic surveillance aircraft and fueled by a U.S. KC-10 tanker, shot down two Iranian fighter planes over an area of the Persian Gulf proclaimed as a protected zone for shipping.[RL30172]

1985 – Italy. On October 10, 1985, US Navy pilots intercepted an Egyptian airliner and forced it to land in Sicily. The airliner was carrying the hijackers of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro who had killed an American citizen during the hijacking.[RL30172]

1986 – Libya. Action in the Gulf of Sidra (1986) On March 26, 1986, President Reagan reported on March 24 and 25, US forces, while engaged in freedom of navigation exercises around the Gulf of Sidra, had been attacked by Libyan missiles and the United States had responded with missiles.[RL30172]

1986 – Libya. Operation El Dorado Canyon On April 16, 1986, President Reagan reported that U.S. air and naval forces had conducted bombing strikes on terrorist facilities and military installations in the Libyan capitol of Tripoli, claiming that Libyan leader Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi was responsible for a bomb attack at a German disco that killed two U.S. soldiers.[RL30172]

1986 – Bolivia. U.S. Army personnel and aircraft assisted Bolivia in anti-drug operations.[RL30172]

1987 – Persian Gulf. USS Stark was struck on May 17 by two Exocet antiship missiles fired from an Iraqi F-1 Mirage during the Iran-Iraq War killing 37 US Navy sailors.

1987 –October 19, Operation Nimble Archer - attack on two Iranian oil platforms in the Persian Gulf by United States Navy forces. The attack was a response to Iran's October 16, 1987 attack on the MV Sea Isle City, a reflagged Kuwaiti oil tanker at anchor off Kuwait, with a Silkworm missile.

1987-88 – Persian Gulf. After the Iran-Iraq War resulted in several military incidents in the Persian Gulf, the United States increased US joint military forces operations in the Persian Gulf and adopted a policy of reflagging and escorting Kuwaiti oil tankers through the Persian Gulf, called Operation Earnest Will. President Reagan reported that US ships had been fired upon or struck mines or taken other military action on September 21 (Iran Ajr), October 8, and October 19, 1987 and April 18 (Operation Praying Mantis), July 3, and July 14, 1988. The United States gradually reduced its forces after a cease-fire between Iran and Iraq on August 20, 1988.[RL30172] It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.[5]

1987-88 – Operation Earnest Will was the U.S. military protection of Kuwaiti oil tankers from Iraqi and Iranian attacks in 1987 and 1988 during the Tanker War phase of the Iran-Iraq War. It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.

1987-88 – Operation Prime Chance was a United States Special Operations Command operation intended to protect U.S. -flagged oil tankers from Iranian attack during the Iran-Iraq War. The operation took place roughly at the same time as Operation Earnest Will.

1988 – Operation Praying Mantis was the April 18, 1988 action waged by U.S. naval forces in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf and the subsequent damage to an American warship.

1988 – Operation Golden Pheasant was an emergency deployment of U.S. troops to Honduras in 1988, as a result of threatening actions by the forces of the (then socialist) Nicaraguans.

1988 – USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655

1988 – Panama. In mid-March and April 1988, during a period of instability in Panama and as the United States increased pressure on Panamanian head of state General Manuel Noriega to resign, the United States sent 1,000 troops to Panama, to "further safeguard the canal, US lives, property and interests in the area." The forces supplemented 10,000 US military personnel already in the Panama Canal Zone.[RL30172]

1989 – Libya. Second Gulf of Sidra Incident On January 4, 1989, two US Navy F-14 aircraft based on the USS John F. Kennedy shot down two Libyan jet fighters over the Mediterranean Sea about 70 miles north of Libya. The US pilots said the Libyan planes had demonstrated hostile intentions.[RL30172]

1989 – Panama. On May 11, 1989, in response to General Noriega's disregard of the results of the Panamanian election, President Bush ordered a brigade-sized force of approximately 1,900 troops to augment the estimated 11,000 U.S. forces already in the area.[RL30172]

1989 – Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru. Andean Initiative in War on Drugs. On September 15, 1989, President Bush announced that military and law enforcement assistance would be sent to help the Andean nations of Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru combat illicit drug producers and traffickers. By mid-September there were 50-100 US military advisers in Colombia in connection with transport and training in the use of military equipment, plus seven Special Forces teams of 2-12 persons to train troops in the three countries.[RL30172]

1989 – Operation Classic Resolve, Philippines - On December 2, 1989, President Bush reported that on December 1, Air Force fighters from Clark Air Base in Luzon had assisted the Aquino government to repel a coup attempt. In addition, 100 marines were sent from U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay to protect the United States Embassy in Manila.[RL30172]
1989-90 – Operation Just Cause, Panama - On December 21, 1989, President Bush reported that he had ordered US military forces to Panama to protect the lives of American citizens and bring General Noriega to justice. By February 13, 1990, all the invasion forces had been withdrawn.[RL30172] Around 200 Panamanian civilians were reported killed. The Panamanian head of state, General Manuel Noriega, was captured and brought to the U.S.

1990 – Liberia. On August 6, 1990, President Bush reported that a reinforced rifle company had been sent to provide additional security to the US Embassy in Monrovia, and that helicopter teams had evacuated U.S. citizens from Liberia.[RL30172]

anned aerial assault vehicle.
We're lost, but we're making good time.

amans

deo TRECI

1990 – Saudi Arabia. On August 9, 1990, President Bush reported that he had ordered the forward deployment of substantial elements of the US armed forces into the Persian Gulf region to help defend Saudi Arabia after the August 2 invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. On November 16, 1990, he reported the continued buildup of the forces to ensure an adequate offensive military option.[RL30172]
[edit] 1991-1999

1991 – Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm (Persian Gulf War). On January 16, 1991, U.S. forces attacked Iraqi forces and military targets in Iraq and Kuwait in conjunction with a coalition of allies and under United Nations Security Council resolutions. Combat operations ended on February 28, 1991.[RL30172] (See )

1991 – Iraq. On May 17, 1991, President Bush stated that the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people had necessitated a limited introduction of U.S. forces into northern Iraq for emergency relief purposes.[RL30172]

1991 – Zaire. On September 25-27, 1991, after widespread looting and rioting broke out in Kinshasa, Air Force C-141s transported 100 Belgian troops and equipment into Kinshasa. American planes also carried 300 French troops into the Central African Republic and hauled evacuated American citizens.[RL30172]

1991-96 – Operation Provide Comfort. Delivery of humanitarian relief and military protection for Kurds fleeing their homes in northern Iraq, by a small Allied ground force based in Turkey.

1992 – Operation Silver Anvil, Sierra Leone. Following the April 29 coup that overthrew President Joseph Saidu Momoh, a United States European Command (USEUCOM) Joint Special Operations Task Force evacuated 438 people (including 42 third-country nationals) on May 3 .Two Air Mobility Command (AMC) C-141s flew 136 people from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to the Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany and nine C-130 sorties carried another 302 people to Dakar, Senegal.[RL30172]

1992-1996 – Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[6]

1992 – Kuwait. On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.[RL30172]

1992-2003 – Iraq. Iraqi No-Fly Zones The U.S. together with the United Kingdom declares and enforces "no fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, and conducting aerial reconnaissance and bombings. (See also Operation Southern Watch) [RL30172]

1992-95 – Somalia. "Operation Restore Hope" Somali Civil War On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed US armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. US forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II). (See also Battle of Mogadishu)[RL30172]

1993-Present – Bosnia-Herzegovina.

1993 – Macedonia. On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 US soldiers to the Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.[RL30172]

1994-95 – Operation Uphold Democracy, Haiti. U.S. ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 US military troops were later deployed to Haiti.[RL30172]

1994 – Macedonia. On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the US contingent in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.[RL30172]

1995 – Operation Deliberate Force, Bosnia. NATO bombing of Bosnian Serbs.[RL30172]

1996 – Operation Assured Response, Liberia. On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the "deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens" in Liberia he had ordered U.S. military forces to evacuate from that country "private U.S. citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the U.S. Embassy compound...."[RL30172]

1996 – Operation Quick Response, Central African Republic. On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of US military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private U.S. citizens and certain U.S. government employees," and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui."[RL30172] United States Marine Corps elements of Joint Task Force Assured Response , responding in nearby Liberia, provided security to the embassy and evacuated 448 people, including between 190 and 208 Americans. The last Marines left Bangui on June 22.

1997 – Operation Silver Wake, Albania On March 13, 1997, U.S. military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens from Tirana, Albania.[RL30172]

1997 – Congo and Gabon. On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.[RL30172]

1997 – Sierra Leone. On May 29 and May 30, 1997, U.S. military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens.[RL30172]

1997 – Cambodia. On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 U.S. military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations. [RL30172]

1998 – Operation Desert Fox, Iraq - U.S. and British forces conduct a a major four-day bombing campaign from December 16–19, 1998 on Iraqi targets.[RL30172]

1998 – Operation Shepherd Venture, Guinea-Bissau. On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the US Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of US military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.[RL30172]

1998 - 1999 Kenya and Tanzania. US military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. [RL30172]

1998 – Operation Infinite Reach, Afghanistan and Sudan. On August 20, air strikes were used against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.[RL30172]

1998 – Liberia. On September 27, 1998 America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 US military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia. [1] [RL30172]

1999-2001 East Timor. Limited number of U.S. military forces deployed with the United Nations-mandated International Force for East Timor restore peace to East Timor.[RL30172]

1999 – Operation Allied Force - NATO's bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo Conflict.[RL30172]
[edit] 2000-2009

2000 – Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000 a US Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.[RL30172]

2000 – Yemen. On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.[RL30172]

2000 – East Timor. On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support of the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). [RL30172]

2001 – Afghanistan. War in Afghanistan. The War on Terrorism begins with Operation Enduring Freedom. On October 7, 2001, US Armed Forces invade Afghanistan in response to the 9/11 attacks and "begin combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda terrorists and their Taliban supporters."[RL30172]

2002 – Yemen. On November 3, 2002, an American MQ-1 Predator fired a Hellfire missile at a car in Yemen killing Qaed Senyan al-Harthi, an al-Qaeda leader thought to be responsible for the USS Cole bombing.[RL30172]

2002 – Philippines. OEF-Philippines. January 2002 U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[RL30172]

2002 – Côte d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Côte d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake.[7] [RL30172]

2003 – 2003 invasion of Iraq leading to the War in Iraq. March 20, 2003. The United States leads a coalition that includes Britain, Australia and Spain to invade Iraq with the stated goal of eliminating Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and undermining Saddam Hussein.[RL30172]

2003 – Liberia. Second Liberian Civil War On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported that on June 8 he had sent about 35 combat-equipped US military personnel into Monrovia, Liberia, to help secure the US Embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.[RL30172]

2003 – Georgia and Djibouti "US combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[8]

2004 – 2004 Haïti rebellion occurs. The US sent first sent 55 combat equipped military personnel to augment the US Embassy security forces there and to protect American citizens and property in light. Later 200 additional US combat-equipped, military personnel were sent to prepare the way for a UN Multinational Interim Force, MINUSTAH.[RL30172]

2004 – War on Terrorism: US anti-terror related activities were underway in Georgia, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, and Eritrea.[9]

2006 – Pakistan. 17 people including known Al Qaeda bomb maker and chemical weapons expert Midhat Mursi, were killed in an American MQ-1 Predator airstrike on Damadola (Pakistan), near the Afghan border.[10][11]

2006 – Lebanon. US Marine Detachment, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit[citation needed], begins evacuation of US citizens willing to the leave the country in the face of a likely ground invasion by Israel and continued fighting between Hezbollah and the Israeli military.[12][13]

2007 – Somalia. Battle of Ras Kamboni. On January 8, 2007, while the conflict between the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Federal Government continues, an AC-130 gunship conducts an aerial strike on a suspected Al-Qaeda operative, along with other Islamist fighters, on Badmadow Island near Ras Kamboni in southern Somalia.[citation needed]

2008 – South Ossetia, Georgia. Helped Georgia humanitarian aid[14], helped to transport Georgian forces from Iraq during the conflict. In the past, the US has provided training and weapons to Georgia.

2009 – Pakistan, In relation to efforts in Afghanistan, U.S. Forces struck an insurgent encampment in the Northern mountains, killing 24, with missiles fired from an unm
We're lost, but we're making good time.

Daisy

Više volim da mi se neko izveštačeno osmehne, nego da se spontano izdere na mene.

Pijanista

"U Africi opet drzavni udar"

Jbt, tamo svaki Mfede Nkmzeze kad zasedne misli da je bog.

Tromotorac

Pa kad je takvima Tito poklanjao VIP avione iz svog arsenala cisto u znak prijateljstva, onda su i imali razloga da za hubris. Zamisli od cega su samo poceli.
The bums will always loose.

Pijanista

Quote2002 – Côte d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Côte d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake.[7] [RL30172]


???

Missim, jesu ameri malo (malo vise) raskalasni, ali gornji spisak sadrzi akcije koje nisu bas tako za osudu.

Tromotorac

Ma sve je to za naftu, i otimacinu tudjih prirodnih sirovina... :?:
The bums will always loose.

Mirabella

Quote from: Pijanista on February 19, 2010, 06:02:44 PM
Quote2002 – Côte d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Côte d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake.[7] [RL30172]

???

Missim, jesu ameri malo (malo vise) raskalasni, ali gornji spisak sadrzi akcije koje nisu bas tako za osudu.

Nema veze, vazno je da spisak dug i impresivan, na oko.  ;)
Don't argue with an Idiot.  He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience!

alan ford

Quote from: Mirabella on February 19, 2010, 06:19:32 PM


Nema veze, vazno je da spisak dug i impresivan, na oko.  ;)

m, da, a htedoh da pitam da li postoji slican spisak SSSR?RUS akcija cisto da mozemo da poredimo? Ne znam da li je ovo malo ili mnogo?

Pijanista

Quotea htedoh da pitam da li postoji slican spisak SSSR?RUS akcija cisto da mozemo da poredimo?

Ima, ali je kratak:

1945-1990 Istocna Evropa

(Da zanemarimo A-stan i unutrasnje cistke). CCCP je u XX veku ubio vise ljudi nego SAD. Tuzna cinjenica.

alan ford

kratak ali jebitacan...

p.s. a gde je avganistan, kuba, razni azijski rezimi...?

Pijanista

Pa rekao sam da zanemarujem sve osim Istocne Evrope, koju su drzali pod sapom.

alan ford

sto izostavljas? mene zanima da uporedim spiskove prosto da znam da li je onaj americki predug ili prekratak ili vec sta je pisac hteo da kaze.
drugo bilo bi zanimljivo napraviti spisak materijalne i ljudske stete koje su takve akcije ucinile. Opet poredjenja radi.

amans

jebitacan--kako za koga, hehe, ja bi pre rekla komican  xrofl


AF, kad si tako radoznao, evo ti menu pa sabiraj:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history


United States of America


Authors such as the Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government and policies of the United States of America against certain indigenous peoples constituted genocide. Cesarani states that "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the Native American Genocide exceeds that of the Holocaust".[24] He quotes David E. Stannard, author of American Holocaust,[25] who speaks of the "genocidal and racist horrors against the indigenous peoples that have been and are being perpetrated by many nations in the Western Hemisphere, including the United States ..."[26] Michno estimates 21,586 dead, wounded, and captured civilians and soldiers for the period of 1850–1890 alone.[27]

In God, Greed, and Genocide: The Holocaust Through the Centuries, Grenke quotes Chalk and Jonassohn with regards to the Cherokee Trail of Tears that "an act like the Cherokee deportation would almost certainly be considered an act of genocide today".[28] The Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the Trail of Tears. About 17,000 Cherokees — along with approximately 2,000 black slaves owned by Cherokees — were removed from their homes.[29] The number of people who died as a result of the Trail of Tears has been variously estimated. American doctor and missionary Elizur Butler, who made the journey with one party, estimated 4,000 deaths.[30]


Soviet Union
Main articles: Human rights in the Soviet Union, Population transfer in the Soviet Union, Famines in Russia and USSR, Decossackization, Gulag, and Holodomor

There are several documented instances of unnatural mass death occurring in the Soviet Union. These include the Soviet-wide famines in early 1920s and early 1930s and deportations of ethnic minorities.

During the Russian Civil War the Bolsheviks engaged in a campaign of genocide against the Don Cossacks.[119][120][121][122][123] The most reliable estimates indicate that out of a population of three million, between 300,000 and 500,000 were killed or deported in 1919–20.[124]

The Soviet famine of 1932-1933 that affected Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and some densely populated regions of Russia, has a special connotation in Ukraine where it is called the Holodomor. The famine was caused by the confiscation of the whole 1933 harvest in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, the North Caucasus, and other parts of Russia, leaving the peasants too little to feed themselves. As a result, an estimated seven million died Soviet-wide, including five million in Ukraine, one million in the North Caucasus, and one million elsewhere.[125] Ukraine is attempting to have the latter recognised as an act of genocide.[126] This move is opposed by the Russian government and some members of the Ukrainian parliament. Officially, Moscow recognises that the famine took place, but refuses to classify it as an ethnic genocide.[126] In November 2006 during a remembrance ceremony held in Kiev, a big board listed ten other countries that recognised the Holodomor as a genocide: Australia, Argentina, Georgia, Estonia, Italy, Canada, Lithuania, Poland, U.S., Hungary.[127] A Ukrainian court found Joseph Stalin, Vyacheslav Molotov, Lazar Kaganovich, Stanislav Kosior, Pavel Postyshev, Vlas Chubar and Mendel Khatayevich guilty of genocide on 13th January 2010[128][129]

The Stalinist deportations are also extremely controversial. During and after World War II, many minority ethnic groups, especially those from the North Caucasus, were exiled to Siberia, usually involving massacres as well. In many cases the targeted group was accused of collaborating with the Nazis. In some cases this was correct, as was the case with the Kalmyks, but with others, such as the deportation of the Chechens, it is usually discredited.

According to some authors, such as Tony Wood [130] Chechevitsa (or "Operation Lentil" in Russian, according to Tony Wood, its first two syllables "point a finger at its intended targets", though while the Chechens were the main targets, they were not the only victims) is particularly troubling. The operation is referred to by Chechens often as "Aardakh" (the Exodus). It was initiated on October 13 1943 when about 120,000 men were moved into the Republic of Checheno-Ingushetia, supposedly for mending bridges. On February 23 1994 (on Red Army day), the entire population was summoned to local party buildings where they were told they were going to be deported as punishment for their alleged collaboration with the Germans. The inhabitants rounded up and imprisoned in Studebaker trucks and sent to Siberia.[131][132] Many times, resistance was met with slaughter, and in one such instance, in the aul of Khaibakh, about live 700 people were locked in a barn and burned to death by NKVD general Gveshiani, who was praised for this and promised a medal by Beria. By the next summer, Checheno-Ingushetia was dissolved; a number of Chechen and Ingush placenames were replaced with Russian ones; mosques and graveyards were destroyed, and a massive campaign of burning numerous historical Chechen texts was near complete (leaving the world depleted of what was more or less the only source of central Caucasian literature and historical texts except for sparse texts about the Chechens, Ingush, etc, not written by themselves, but by Georgians) [133][134] Throughout the North Caucasus, about 700,000 (according to Dalkhat Ediev, 724297 [135], of which the majority, 412,548, were Chechens, along with 96,327 Ingush, 104,146 Kalmyks, 39,407 Balkars and 71869 Karachais). Many died along the trip, and the extremely harsh environment of Siberia (especially considering the amount of exposure) killed many more. The NKVD, supplying the Russian perspective, gives the statistic of 144,704 people killed in 1944-1948 alone (death rate of 23.5% per all groups), though this is dismissed by many authors such as Tony Wood as a far understatement [136]. Estimates for deaths of the Chechens alone (excluding the NKVD statistic), range from about 170000 to 200000 [137][138][139], thus ranging from over a third of the total Chechen population to nearly half being killed in those 4 years alone (rates for other groups for those four years hover around 20%). Although the Council of Europe has recognized it as a "genocidal act", no country except the self-declared, unrecognized Chechen Republic of Ichkeriaofficially recognizes the act as a genocide.

Estonia attempted to charge Soviet-era officials with genocide on the grounds that the exiles to Siberia constituted genocide.[140][141] A memorial at Vilna in Lithuania is dedicated to the genocide victims of Stalin as well as Hitler[142], and the state-run Museum of Genocide Victims in Lithuania focuses on Stalin's imprisonment and deportation of Lithuanians.[143]
We're lost, but we're making good time.

alan ford

Quote from: amans on February 19, 2010, 07:27:04 PM

AF, kad si tako radoznao, evo ti menu pa sabiraj:

nisam radoznao, samo eto pitam sta da zakljucim, da je spisak predugacak, potaman, ili prekratak?