USA vs EU

[vbo man]

France24 - Pentagon's alleged preference for US bids to have 'consequences'

    AFP - Claims the Pentagon skewed bidding rules for a tanker jet contract in favour of an American manufacturer will have serious consequences for EU-US relations, senior French officials said Wednesday.

    US aerospace giant Boeing is set to win a 35 billion dollar (26 billion euro) contract to build an aerial refueling tanker plane for the US air force after Northrop Grumman and its European partner EADS dropped out.

    Both European officials and EADS, which owns planemaker Airbus, claim that the Pentagon altered bidding rules for the contract in order to favour Boeing's all-American offer over the European bid.

I oni to zovu TRZISHTE xrofl

[zagor te nej]

O ovome ne znas nista, prvi put si cula za bilo sta kad si procitala ove tri recenice. Imas ti misljenje o svemu, ali imam i ja dupe pa ga ne pokazujem svima.

[vbo man]

Ne znam nishta ali znam da chitam i na osnovu prochitanog donosim SVOJ sud.
Ti vidim znash sve o ovome pa te zato jedi :mrgreen:

[zagor te nej]

Ako postoji firma na planeti zemlji koja koristi politicki pritisak da proda svoj proizvod sto lokalnim evropskim sto ostalim kompanijama, to je EADS. A da ne ulazimo u, po WTO sasvim ilegalne tax i R&D dilove koje dobijaju od EU. I oni sad nasli da se ljute sto su ga oglabali za najveci defense projekat u Americi u nekoliko decenija.

[Hate mail]

OK, OK, ali razumi i ti da se sedi kuci po ceo dan.

[Daisy]

nije to baš ... USA vs EU



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787#Major_components



Major components

Boeing manufactures the 787's: tail fin at its plant in Frederickson, Washington, the ailerons and flaps at Boeing Australia, and fairings at Boeing Canada Technology. For economic reasons, the wings are manufactured by Japanese companies in Nagoya such as Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which also makes the central wing box.[34] This was a new and daring step for Boeing, which has historically guarded its techniques for designing and mass producing commercial jetliner wings.[35] The horizontal stabilizers are manufactured by Alenia Aeronautica in Italy; and the fuselage sections by Global Aeronautica and Boeing's Charleston facility [36] in North Charleston, South Carolina (USA), Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Japan and Spirit AeroSystems, in Wichita, Kansas (USA).[37] The subcontractors are all designing with CATIA V5.[38] (Catia je francuski software, op. INI)

The passenger doors are made by Latécoère (France), and the cargo doors, access doors, and crew escape door are made by Saab (Sweden). Japanese industrial participation is very important to the project, with a 35% work share, and many of the subcontractors supported and funded by the Japanese government.[35] On April 26, 2006, Japanese manufacturer Toray Industries and Boeing announced a production agreement involving $6 billion worth of carbon fiber. The deal is an extension of a contract signed in 2004 between the two companies and eases some concerns that Boeing might have difficulty maintaining its production goals for the 787.[4] On February 6, 2008, TAL Manufacturing Solutions Limited, a subsidiary of the Tata Group (India) announced a deal to deliver floor beams for the 787 from their factory at Mihan, near Nagpur, India to assembly plants in Italy, Japan and the United States.[39][40]

Messier-Dowty (France) builds the landing gear, which includes titanium forged in Russia, and brake parts from Italy,[41] and GE Aviation in Yakima WA builds several actuators for the landing gear. Thales supplies the integrated standby flight display and electrical power conversion system.[4] Honeywell and Rockwell-Collins provide flight control, guidance, and other avionics systems, including standard dual head up guidance systems. Future integration of forward-looking infrared is being considered by Flight Dynamics allowing improved visibility using thermal sensing as part of the HUD system, allowing pilots to "see" through the clouds.[4] Connecticut (USA)-based Hamilton Sundstrand provides power distribution and management systems for the aircraft, including manufacture and production of Generator Control Units (GCUs) as well as integration of power transfer systems that can move power from the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) and the main engines to the necessary parts and machinery of the aircraft. Cold weather test of the APU took place in Alaska.

Assembly milestones

The first composite fuselage section rolled out in January 2005, and final external design was set in April 2005. On June 30, 2006, Boeing celebrated the start of major assembly of the first 787 at Fuji Heavy Industries' new factory in Handa, Japan, near Nagoya.[42] On December 6, 2006, Boeing conducted a "virtual rollout" of the 787 in which a simulation of the 787's manufacturing process was shown publicly. Performed using the project's Catia design tool, the simulation was intended to discover production issues prior to assembly of the first airframe, when they are cheaper to fix.[43]

On January 12, 2007, first major assemblies, forward fuselage, center wing, and center wheel well built by FHI and KHI were shipped on 747 Dreamlifters from Nagoya, Japan. They were delivered to Global Aeronautica in Charleston, South Carolina, on January 15.[44] On March 14, 2007, the first production vertical tail fin was rolled out at Boeing's Composite Manufacturing Center in Frederickson, Washington.[45] On April 16, the first production all-composite nose-and-cockpit section (Section 41) was rolled out at Spirit Aerosystem's plant in Wichita, Kansas.[46] Comprising the cockpit area, nose landing gear well, and the forward-most section of the passenger area, this oval-shaped section is 21 feet (6.4 m) in height, 19 feet (5.74 m) in width and 42 feet (12.8 m) in length. A Dreamlifter delivered the first horizontal stabilizer manufactured by Alenia Aeronautica at its facility in Grottaglie, Italy to Everett on April 24.[47] On May 8, 2007, Vought rolled out completed rear Sections 47 and 48 from its factory in Charleston, SC.[48] The sections were flown via the Dreamlifter to Everett, arriving on May 11 along with the all-composite forward section (section 41) manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems.[49]

The 747 Dreamlifter was also used to ship the first 787 carbon-fiber wings from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.'s factory in Nagoya to Everett on May 15, 2007.[50] The final major assembly, the integrated midbody fuselage, followed the next day,[51] allowing 787 final assembly to begin on May 21.[52] Rolls-Royce shipped the first pair of Trent 1000 engines from their Derby, UK facilities on schedule on June 7,[53] and on June 26, 2007, LN1/ZA001 had finished major assembly and was towed to the paint hangar in the early morning.[54]

[Pijanista]

France24 - Pentagon's alleged preference ...

Cim vidim Pentagon, odma stanem. Meni je suludo da vojska (ako se ne varam Pentagon ima veze sa vojskom) ne bira po nekim drugim osim ekonomskim kriterijumima. Sta sad, poijavi se ruska firma i da malo bolju ponudu od Boeinga, moraju njih da uzmu?

[Tromotorac]

Da li se neko seca kako je Francuska zajebala British Airways, otkazavsi product support za Concorde? To je bila politicka odluka, zakamuflirana u ekonomsku. Naime, kad je Air France povukao Concorde iz upotrebe, Francuska nije htela da dozvoli Aerospacial (sada deo EADSa) da pruza servisnu uslugu odrzavanja britanskih Konkorda. BA nije povukao svoje iz upotrebe, dok nisu dobili zvanican "end of support" notice iz Francuske.

Nakon ovog, ja nikad ne bih rizikovao bilionske i to vojne ugovore sa Aerospacial/EADS-om.  Tankeri su malo senzitivnija i dugorocnija narudzbina od npr. Uniteda kojem treba pedesetak a319 za sledecih 20 godina.

[zagor te nej]

A niko se ne pita da li je francuska vlada i metak tudji narucila za svoju vojsku (koja ionako ne sluzi nicemu sem da se u kompletu preda Nemcima za tri dana i naoruza im, i to vrhunski, jedno 50 divizija).

[Ivan_D]

JNA je redovno odbijala da kupi superiorno i jeftinije slovenacko automatsko i drugo oruzije i odlucivala se za Zastavino.

[Tromotorac]

EADS je nudio preradjenu verziju A330 za tanker, koji je mnogo veci nego sto je neophodno, pa su predlagali da deo aviona bude za Cargo. Medjutim velicina ogranicava broj dostupnih aerodroma, da bi sleteo i parkirao A330 potrebna je i duza pista i veca kvadratura na stajanci. 767 je mnogo prikladniji da zameni c135, em su istih dimenzija, em jeftiniji. Know-how, odrzavanje, ostaje u istom domenu.

Ova prica uostalom tece vec 5-6 godina. Boeing je u prvom krugu dobio lease program, pa je onda McCain to zaustavio i valjda pomogao da par Boeingovih exec posalju u zatvor zbog konflikta interesa.

Inace Boeingovi lobisti ukljucuju suprugu ex-Dem house speakera, a EADS/Grumann imaju pro-republikanske lobiste iz Alabame i juznih drzava. Nije naodmet ni zanemariti ulogu Boeingovi sindikata koji imaju uticaja na ovu administraciju.


U sustini, ovo jeste politicki proces, ali valjda tako i treba da bude. Ni Francuska ne nabavlja svoje naoruzanje kroz free-trade bidding only.

[zagor te nej]

Pa naravno, svuda i uvek su vojne nabavke politicko pitanje.
Meni ni iz dzepa i u dzep, ali bih popizdeo da znam da drzavne pare idu u Pariz a ne u Seattle imajuci u vidu bezobrazluk i laktanje Airbusa u proteklih 30 godina.
Bolje bi im bilo da su novac umesto za lobiranje potrosili da nadju sto im A330 pade kao sekira onomad. Cute kao zaliveni o tome.

[Tromotorac]

Tacno. Ali i Boing kao single large ac manufacturer je u losem polozaju time sto nema domaceg kompetitora. Bili bi u mnogo boljoj formi da i dalje su MCD i Lockheed u igri. Ovaj njihov cirkus sa real time supplier chain u proizvodnji 787 je sramota, i da sam ja na njihovom mestu, ne bih vise eksperimentisao u tom pravcu; a da imaju konkurenciju, drugacije bi sve to izgledalo.

[zagor te nej]

Jesu zasrali ceo 787 projekat onako fest....

[Hate mail]

JNA je redovno odbijala da kupi superiorno i jeftinije slovenacko automatsko i drugo oruzije i odlucivala se za Zastavino.

A?

[Tromotorac]

E da, jos nesto - Boeingov KC-767 je jeftiniji od EADSovog A330.

[vbo man]

OK, OK, ali razumi i ti da se sedi kuci po ceo dan.

OK OK ali razumem i ja da se po ceo dan na poslu visi na net-u :mrgreen:
Mene bar niko ne placa za to :cry:

[vbo man]

Meni je suludo da vojska (ako se ne varam Pentagon ima veze sa vojskom) ne bira po nekim drugim osim ekonomskim kriterijumima. Sta sad, poijavi se ruska firma i da malo bolju ponudu od Boeinga, moraju njih da uzmu?

Ne moraju...ali onda ne biduju i ne prave farsu kao eto mi hocemo trzishte, utakmicu, globalizaciju...nego to prosto daju svojima...kao shto se uvek radilo...

[zagor te nej]

Pa ceo svet pravi 767, alo, nije avion kutija sibica.

[Hate mail]

767, "Smederevac", what's the big deal?

[vbo man]

767, "Smederevac"

xrofl

[Hate mail]

Jel znas ti onu od slavuja iz Mrcajevca "smej se, smej, samo se smej"?

Ja kad nemam sta da kazem na nekom sastanku ja cutim, ne pravim suvisne zvukove.

[Tromotorac]

Dakle, Francuska i Nemacka imaju prava da prigovara USA, dok ni oni uopste i ne raspisuju RFP vec idu pravo u EADS i narucuju domace? Nesto tu ne stima.

[vbo man]

Ja kad nemam sta da kazem na nekom sastanku ja cutim, ne pravim suvisne zvukove.

Pa jel dosta cutish? Jesi cutolog?
Parole ti medjutim idu od ruke :mrgreen:

[Hate mail]

Kao sto dobro primecujes, ja apsolutno nemam pojma ni o cemu i shodno tome sedim kuci po ceo dan, nezaposlen, heklam, pravim slatko, chatujem sa srodnim slucajevima i zivim za fajt.

[zagor te nej]

 :D

[vbo man]

Kao sto dobro primecujes, ja apsolutno nemam pojma ni o cemu i shodno tome sedim kuci po ceo dan, nezaposlen, heklam, pravim slatko, chatujem sa srodnim slucajevima i zivim za fajt.

Ne znam da heklam, ja shtrikam :|
Zimnicu ne pravim odkad sebe...od kad sam u inostranstvu...
A da pricham sa svetom na net-u - p richam.
Vidim i ti tako uzasno zaposlen nadjesh vremena za to.
Ako si mislio da mi se podsmehnesh - promashio si. Ja uopshte nisam nezadovoljna svojim statusom domacice.
A koje su stvari vazne u zivotu kad porastesh , kashce ti se samo...

[vbo man]

Evo se pridruzio i Gordon Brown...

France24 - Sarkozy, Brown slam US `protectionism' on defence deal

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy (right) and Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown have accused Washington of protectionism, claiming the Pentagon favoured US company Boeing for a $50 billion Air Force refuelling tanker contract.

    The leaders of France and Britain have accused Washington of obstructing European aerospace company EADS from fairly competing for a $50 billion Air Force refuelling tanker contract.

    The trans-Atlantic dispute over a $50 billion US Air Force refuelling tanker contract reached new heights Friday, as French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown accused Washington of protectionism -- a policy that the USA usually warns other countries against.

    If the US "wants to be taken seriously in the fight against protectionism, they should be setting a better example", Sarkozy said at a joint press conference with his British counterpart in London.

[Daisy]

bilo ranije nesti slicno, ne secam se vec u vezi cega ... uglavnom Hrvatska dobila neki posao, podigla se buka ... na kraju price Hrvati se povukli a Francuzi dobili posao

[vbo man]

Ma nije sam dogadjaj nishta chudan i verovatno je vrlo chest ( ko veruje u mehanizme trzishta na zapadu kao u "ikonu" meni je prosto smeshan ili neiskren.
Ono shto je chudno je da se Evropljani bune i to su podigli na drzavni nivo...Meni to nagoveshtava dalji raskol izmedju USE i EU...